4 ms·

Just thinking about how much work and research from organizations like the CDC put in to preventing another Spanish flu-like pandemic for humans, it seems shock

by vichu 8y ago

Just thinking about how much work and research from organizations like the CDC put in to preventing another Spanish flu-like pandemic for humans, it seems shockingly obvious that pandemics would be occurring for other species where technology and quarantine are not as strictly used. Its only through observations like this that I've realized how devastating the impact of contaminated ecosystems must be. I suppose that's why I've needed to check all those boxes about visiting farms/smuggling produce whenever I go through customs. Since this article is specifically about frogs, I can't help but wonder if the drastic reduction of insect biomass isn't contributing to their decline. With numbers as drastic as a 75% decline in certain areas[0], it's hard to imagine frogs/birds/etc. aren't suffering from population decline due to reduced food availability. [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/as-insect-populations-decline-scientists-are-trying-to-understand-why/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/as-insect-populat...

abalone 8y ago
Some solid research pointing to climate change being the primary factor driving this.[1] See other comments for details. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1685858/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1685858/
- amvalo 8y ago
  The die-off started in the 70s when climate change was < 0.5C. OTOH, the story of globalization introducing pests/pathogens to naive populations is an extremely common one, and there's no reason to doubt it here.
  - abalone 8y ago
    Oh yes there is. From the study just cited: “While a large percentage of these declines are attributable to direct anthropogenic effects, such as habitat loss, a substantial amount (48%) are classed as ‘enigmatic‘ declines with no identifiable cause (Stuart et al. 2004).“ Also: “We have recently shown that B. dendrobatidis widely infects amphibian populations across Europe (Garner et al. 2005), suggesting that introductions of the pathogen are rather more ancient than were previously expected. However, mass mortalities are highly clustered within a relatively few high-altitude areas in Spain and France (S. Walker, M. C. Fisher & J. Bosch 2003–2006, unpublished data). These data are inconsistent with a wave-like front of introductions across Europe driving contemporary epidemics and suggest that environmental conditions influence host–pathogen dynamics in determining the outcome of infection within a site of introduction.”
chiefalchemist 8y ago
And let's not forget frogs eat insects. The point being, a weakened frog might become even more so from lack of food. It seems that humans are so busy, self-absorbed and "proud" about what we can do that we're not considering other species might not be as resilient to changes in the habitat. Perhaps that's too obvious for us?
- ianai 8y ago
  Individual humans don’t even consistently protect their own survival.
mark-r 8y ago
Makes you wonder if a similar pathogen can explain the insect decline?
randyrand 8y ago
Also makes you realize how BS the common refrain that “the circle of life/pyramid is super fragile” is. Diseases have wiped out huge portions of species for millennia but life somehow carried on just fine.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- EamonnMR 8y ago
  If we weren't at the top of the house of cards, we'd have nothing to worry about. But unless you can stomach eating nothing but genetically enhanced yeast, it might be worth trying to keep some other species down the food chain around.
ImaCake 8y ago
This is a lesson learnt in Australia and even more so in New Zealand. Quarantine upon entry is strict. I returned to Australia from New Zealand with dirty hiking boots and they washed them before letting me carry them through. Not declaring or disposing of plant or animal matter is subject to massive fines.
Ultimatt 8y ago
Its worse than a pandemic because its across so many species simultaneously. Imagine if a flesh eating fungus was killing all mammals around you. What would be the human response to this? It would be a lot stronger than quarantine. We would immediately slaughter all mammal pets. All rodents would be fumegated from cities whilst everyone wears gas masks in the streets. With children going to school in tented buildings. Consider this has been going on for decades because real immunity is low, just resistance is better with some species. We would have whole generations maimed from amputations to save their life. If this was something that affected us more directly it would be the bleakest existence you could imagine.

by vichu 8y ago

abalone 8y ago

Some solid research pointing to climate change being the primary factor driving this.[1] See other comments for details. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1685858/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1685858/

amvalo 8y ago
The die-off started in the 70s when climate change was < 0.5C. OTOH, the story of globalization introducing pests/pathogens to naive populations is an extremely common one, and there's no reason to doubt it here.
- abalone 8y ago
  Oh yes there is. From the study just cited: “While a large percentage of these declines are attributable to direct anthropogenic effects, such as habitat loss, a substantial amount (48%) are classed as ‘enigmatic‘ declines with no identifiable cause (Stuart et al. 2004).“ Also: “We have recently shown that B. dendrobatidis widely infects amphibian populations across Europe (Garner et al. 2005), suggesting that introductions of the pathogen are rather more ancient than were previously expected. However, mass mortalities are highly clustered within a relatively few high-altitude areas in Spain and France (S. Walker, M. C. Fisher & J. Bosch 2003–2006, unpublished data). These data are inconsistent with a wave-like front of introductions across Europe driving contemporary epidemics and suggest that environmental conditions influence host–pathogen dynamics in determining the outcome of infection within a site of introduction.”

chiefalchemist 8y ago

And let's not forget frogs eat insects. The point being, a weakened frog might become even more so from lack of food. It seems that humans are so busy, self-absorbed and "proud" about what we can do that we're not considering other species might not be as resilient to changes in the habitat. Perhaps that's too obvious for us?

ianai 8y ago
Individual humans don’t even consistently protect their own survival.

mark-r 8y ago

Makes you wonder if a similar pathogen can explain the insect decline?

randyrand 8y ago

Also makes you realize how BS the common refrain that “the circle of life/pyramid is super fragile” is. Diseases have wiped out huge portions of species for millennia but life somehow carried on just fine.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
EamonnMR 8y ago
If we weren't at the top of the house of cards, we'd have nothing to worry about. But unless you can stomach eating nothing but genetically enhanced yeast, it might be worth trying to keep some other species down the food chain around.

ImaCake 8y ago

This is a lesson learnt in Australia and even more so in New Zealand. Quarantine upon entry is strict. I returned to Australia from New Zealand with dirty hiking boots and they washed them before letting me carry them through. Not declaring or disposing of plant or animal matter is subject to massive fines.

Ultimatt 8y ago

Its worse than a pandemic because its across so many species simultaneously. Imagine if a flesh eating fungus was killing all mammals around you. What would be the human response to this? It would be a lot stronger than quarantine. We would immediately slaughter all mammal pets. All rodents would be fumegated from cities whilst everyone wears gas masks in the streets. With children going to school in tented buildings. Consider this has been going on for decades because real immunity is low, just resistance is better with some species. We would have whole generations maimed from amputations to save their life. If this was something that affected us more directly it would be the bleakest existence you could imagine.