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From the same ADL source on white supremacy: > White supremacist Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute, a tiny white supremacist think tank,

From the same ADL source on white supremacy: > White supremacist Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute, a tiny white supremacist think tank, coined the term “Alternative Right” Or from the SPLC source: > The racist so-called “alt-right,” which came to prominence in late 2015, is white nationalism’s most recent formulation Both clearly use them in the same breath. We can argue semantics about one being the tool for the other etc etc. But that doesn't change the fact that they are being tightly related by organizations that is an authority to Facebook. SPLC and ADL is very aware of its power, and has related much of the prominent dissenters of wildly different ideologies to what they claim is alt-right; Maajid (an arab muslim, they lost a lawsuit on this one and apologized), Jordan Peterson (an individualist liberal), Ben Shapiro (a pretty normal conservative), Dave Rubin (a classical liberal) etc etc. SPLC and ADL are by this evidence too often bullshitters that don't relate what they say to truth, but instead relate it to their ideology that is not preoccupied with truth-seeking. It is really a shame their views are elevated like this as a justification for Facebooks and other organizations abuse of power.

joshuamorton 8y ago
You still haven't given an example of someone being called a "white supremacist". Would you please? Or admit that you are fearmongering. Again, Facebook didn't use the word already right. They're talking about white supremacists. You're arguing that these are the same thing. So if that's the case, you should have ample examples of people calling Jordan Peterson a white supremacist also. If not, then maybe they aren't the same thing, and your equivocation is unwarranted and you should stop attempting to confuse the subject.
- asabjorn 8y ago
  With regards to examples I can do better than showing how people use it in the same breath. Here [1, 2] are examples of where SPLC specifically uses alt-right and white supremacy to describe the viewpoints related to Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin etc in the same article. I've also shown that even the authoritarian sources Facebook trusts use alt-right and white supremacist in the same breath when defining the terms. These articles are no accident, this is what they believe. This is not fear mongering. This is people that don't mind using their power to accuse viewpoint opponents for things they didn't do and with no evidence claiming they hold reprehensible viewpoints. Edit: can't reply due to message depth limit, but the debate here is about facebook suppressing people like Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin using arguments made by SPLC and ADL such as the one in [1,2]. Why do they have the right to suppress other peoples viewpoints on dubious grounds with no recourse? It is pretty clear from your arguments that you agree that they are related or as you say "a white nationalist recruiting tool" regardless of how you otherwise view them. The process facebook institute will therefore suppress these viewpoints based upon no evidence and by subjectively mischaracterizing their viewpoints, with no recourse for this power abuse. [1] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/07/prageru%E2%80%99s-influence https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/07/prageru%E2%80... [2] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/25/whose-alt-right-it-anyway https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/25/whose-alt-rig...
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    Right so both of those article said exactly what I said: there's a process of radicalzation and people like Rubin (and Peterson) feed into that process. Once more: please give an example of someone calling Jordan Peterson a white supremacist, or admit alternatively admit that no one has done so and you were fearmongering. Not saying jbp associates with white supremacists, or serves as a useful idiot for white supremacists. That's all well known. You claimed that people called Jordan Peterson a white supremacist. You still haven't justified that claim, and that's because, quite simply, it's false. You're fearmongering. No one has called Jordan Peterson a white supremacist. That's just a factually incorrect statement. They've said he unintentionally helps white supremacists, he occasionally associates with them, take selfies with them sure, but for all your trying, you still haven't been able to find someone actually call jbp a white supremacist. So perhaps, just maybe, your worry is misplaced.
    - asabjorn 8y ago
      I’d like to more clearly find out where and if we disagree where it matters the most. Do you think it is justified to ban or suppress content on social media from people that SPLC/ADL view as part of the radicalization process? Eg jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin.
      - joshuamorton 8y ago
        >Do you think it is justified to ban or suppress content on social media from people that SPLC/ADL view as part of the radicalization process? Eg jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin. I certainly do, but evidence (e.g. historic enforcement patterns) indicates that Facebook does not. Note that my opinion on this isn't global and without nuance. There are things that Jordan Peterson does and says that aren't, at all, controversial and are even occasionally interesting and thought provoking. Not everything he does radicalizes people. Same with, I assume, Rubin and Shapiro, although I don't pay them enough attention to know or care either way. However, that's all beside the point. Facebook *doesn't appear to thing that they're worth censoring. I'm not sure why my opinion is at all relevant. You still haven't given me that example, by the way.

joshuamorton 8y ago

You still haven't given an example of someone being called a "white supremacist". Would you please? Or admit that you are fearmongering. Again, Facebook didn't use the word already right. They're talking about white supremacists. You're arguing that these are the same thing. So if that's the case, you should have ample examples of people calling Jordan Peterson a white supremacist also. If not, then maybe they aren't the same thing, and your equivocation is unwarranted and you should stop attempting to confuse the subject.

asabjorn 8y ago
With regards to examples I can do better than showing how people use it in the same breath. Here [1, 2] are examples of where SPLC specifically uses alt-right and white supremacy to describe the viewpoints related to Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin etc in the same article. I've also shown that even the authoritarian sources Facebook trusts use alt-right and white supremacist in the same breath when defining the terms. These articles are no accident, this is what they believe. This is not fear mongering. This is people that don't mind using their power to accuse viewpoint opponents for things they didn't do and with no evidence claiming they hold reprehensible viewpoints. Edit: can't reply due to message depth limit, but the debate here is about facebook suppressing people like Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin using arguments made by SPLC and ADL such as the one in [1,2]. Why do they have the right to suppress other peoples viewpoints on dubious grounds with no recourse? It is pretty clear from your arguments that you agree that they are related or as you say "a white nationalist recruiting tool" regardless of how you otherwise view them. The process facebook institute will therefore suppress these viewpoints based upon no evidence and by subjectively mischaracterizing their viewpoints, with no recourse for this power abuse. [1] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/07/prageru%E2%80%99s-influence https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/07/prageru%E2%80... [2] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/25/whose-alt-right-it-anyway https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/25/whose-alt-rig...
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  Right so both of those article said exactly what I said: there's a process of radicalzation and people like Rubin (and Peterson) feed into that process. Once more: please give an example of someone calling Jordan Peterson a white supremacist, or admit alternatively admit that no one has done so and you were fearmongering. Not saying jbp associates with white supremacists, or serves as a useful idiot for white supremacists. That's all well known. You claimed that people called Jordan Peterson a white supremacist. You still haven't justified that claim, and that's because, quite simply, it's false. You're fearmongering. No one has called Jordan Peterson a white supremacist. That's just a factually incorrect statement. They've said he unintentionally helps white supremacists, he occasionally associates with them, take selfies with them sure, but for all your trying, you still haven't been able to find someone actually call jbp a white supremacist. So perhaps, just maybe, your worry is misplaced.
  - asabjorn 8y ago
    I’d like to more clearly find out where and if we disagree where it matters the most. Do you think it is justified to ban or suppress content on social media from people that SPLC/ADL view as part of the radicalization process? Eg jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin.
    - joshuamorton 8y ago
      >Do you think it is justified to ban or suppress content on social media from people that SPLC/ADL view as part of the radicalization process? Eg jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin. I certainly do, but evidence (e.g. historic enforcement patterns) indicates that Facebook does not. Note that my opinion on this isn't global and without nuance. There are things that Jordan Peterson does and says that aren't, at all, controversial and are even occasionally interesting and thought provoking. Not everything he does radicalizes people. Same with, I assume, Rubin and Shapiro, although I don't pay them enough attention to know or care either way. However, that's all beside the point. Facebook *doesn't appear to thing that they're worth censoring. I'm not sure why my opinion is at all relevant. You still haven't given me that example, by the way.