5 ms·

What about it is fraud?

• tantalor 8y ago
  The parts between "fake" and "profit".
  • sansnomme 8y ago
    It's no different than beating an opponent's bot in HFT
    • dchichkov 8y ago
      It is actually illegal to beat an opponent's bot in HFT. It is regulated. One is not supposed to release a strategy on the market, which goal is "to beat an opponent's bot". There've been precedents of that (i.e. bot of a pension fund figured out and beaten by algorithmic trading company bot) and the resulting trades were reversed, fines imposed by regulators. Source. 4 years of R&D at HFT company that traded around $10^10 during that time :)
  • anigbrowl 8y ago
    This won't meet the elements of fraud in the US because while you could argue that the performative activity was a deliberate representation (in contrast to a false claim where I tell you directly about a great deal on a bridge that doesn't really exist), you'll have trouble establishing the detrimental reliance aspect. If you see misleading activity and then jump to an incorrect conclusion instead of verifying its truth or falsehood then that's on you.
    • tantalor 8y ago
      Not true if the other party stands to profit from the misleading activity. For example, pump & dump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump
      • anigbrowl 8y ago
        Good point, but I'm not sure if fake market behavior (along with the direct exhortations to participation) directly maps onto fake real world behavior with no solicitation. As a (somewhat ridiculous) counter example, suppose I know you, a trader, love tap dancing and I, also a trader, happen to be a skilled tap dancer. On Monday I show up outside your office and start tapping up a storm. You are unable to resist the sound of your favorite thing and rush out of your office to enjoy my performance. I return at the same hour Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and by then you are out on the sidewalk expecting me when I show up. Friday you leave your office as usual but you wait for me to show in vain, for I am in my office and taking advantage of your absence to make a big trade against you. Have I defrauded you? You believed that I would show up to entertain you instead of competing against you in the market, and frankly I trained you to think so only to enrich myself at your expense.
        • zaphirplane 8y ago
          I don’t know why people think it’s ok to intend to commit fraud, intend to swindle someone, do it. Then have a long song and dance about how the fraud committed wasn’t actually fraud Let’s make it simple you intend to commit murder, you buy the tools, draw up a plan, then get arrested. Guess what you are up for with zero interaction with the victim
          • Chris2048 8y ago
            You haven't established that this example is fraud. Murder is murder, tap-dance distraction isn't fraud.
            • zaphirplane 8y ago
              Researching how to dispose of a body is only research. Intent is the key word here, the rest is your defence lawyers plausible deniability argument
              • speedplane 8y ago