4 ms·

Maybe this is an excessively callous view, but isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed? Is the expectation for the reader to pity their condition? There i

Maybe this is an excessively callous view, but isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed? Is the expectation for the reader to pity their condition? There is no totalitarian government that's relocating these people to a gulag and forcing them into 996 labor work for their motherland. These are people who are trying to break into upper middle class or beyond by pursuing high risk high reward economic opportunities and sacrificing much in exchange. When you start with nothing, and you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you.

jjoonathan 8y ago
> isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed > you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you
- BadassFractal 8y ago
  Is it unfair to voluntarily give another party leverage over you? Or is that a fair choice?
  - goodfight 8y ago
    I think it's less about fairness and more about the harsh facts of reality. In a perfect world, the workers would be able to come to fair agreements with employers and get exploited less.
  - jjoonathan 8y ago
    Choice does not imply fairness. If I am a serial killer and I offer my victims a choice between dying by machete and dying by shotgun, does that exonerate the murder?
- kian 8y ago
  > When ... you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you
jonahss 8y ago
Is getting only 3 weeks of vacation self-imposed for most US workers?
- rezistik 8y ago
  > 3 weeks of vacation ... most US workers Most US workers have no vacation...
prewett 8y ago
Ironically, there is, in fact a totalitarian government, and it appears to view its citizens as extensions of the state [1]. While the state isn't trying to force anyone into 996 software jobs to my knowledge, when all the companies expect 996, what other options do you have? Especially after you worked all your life to get into a good college and studied to get a good job, which your parents are depending on you getting for their retirement. You just graduated with a software degree, what are your other options? You could always do construction work or factory work like all the other migrants who couldn't get into a good university (or into any university at all), or whose parents couldn't afford university. Just imagine how your parents would flip out at that, not to mention your own personal pride. Plus you'd have to live like a migrant, which in a city like Beijing is probably crammed in a room with 4 - 8 other people. [1] https://nb.sinocism.com/p/engineers-of-the-soul-ideology-in https://nb.sinocism.com/p/engineers-of-the-soul-ideology-in
chillacy 8y ago
> When you start with nothing, and you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you. So the carrot, or the stick? I suppose the carrot is the better alternative, but it's reasonable to be mad at a system that holds you hostage like that.
kartan 8y ago
> Maybe this is an excessively callous view, but isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed? Is the expectation for the reader to pity their condition? I guess that you are down voted because you are supporting a fallacy. Your comment supports the idea that you cannot change the system, and that the system is never at fault but individual people is. If this people wants to improve their situation there is no individual action that they can take that will make a big impact. Only if they unionize, or make changes in government they can achieve improvements in their lives. > When you start with nothing, and you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you. Yes. This is exactly what I mean. But, the rest of your comment seems to contradict this fact.
fulltrottle 8y ago
It's weird that that's a thing, considering how there are SO many startups both in Silicon Valley and Shenzen. You would think these companies would poach talent by providing perks like "4 day work week" or "unlimited vacation". The author of the article might have a point. Silicon Valley is starting to figure this out to some extent but China isn't yet Still I would think that since there's so many companies that these jobs would be extremely cushy. I guess the actual problem is that the label market is so much more saturated than the number of startups that they don't even have to poach talent at all

jjoonathan 8y ago

> isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed > you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you

BadassFractal 8y ago
Is it unfair to voluntarily give another party leverage over you? Or is that a fair choice?
- goodfight 8y ago
  I think it's less about fairness and more about the harsh facts of reality. In a perfect world, the workers would be able to come to fair agreements with employers and get exploited less.
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  Choice does not imply fairness. If I am a serial killer and I offer my victims a choice between dying by machete and dying by shotgun, does that exonerate the murder?
kian 8y ago
> When ... you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you

jonahss 8y ago

Is getting only 3 weeks of vacation self-imposed for most US workers?

rezistik 8y ago
> 3 weeks of vacation ... most US workers Most US workers have no vacation...

prewett 8y ago

Ironically, there is, in fact a totalitarian government, and it appears to view its citizens as extensions of the state [1]. While the state isn't trying to force anyone into 996 software jobs to my knowledge, when all the companies expect 996, what other options do you have? Especially after you worked all your life to get into a good college and studied to get a good job, which your parents are depending on you getting for their retirement. You just graduated with a software degree, what are your other options? You could always do construction work or factory work like all the other migrants who couldn't get into a good university (or into any university at all), or whose parents couldn't afford university. Just imagine how your parents would flip out at that, not to mention your own personal pride. Plus you'd have to live like a migrant, which in a city like Beijing is probably crammed in a room with 4 - 8 other people. [1] https://nb.sinocism.com/p/engineers-of-the-soul-ideology-in https://nb.sinocism.com/p/engineers-of-the-soul-ideology-in

chillacy 8y ago

> When you start with nothing, and you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you. So the carrot, or the stick? I suppose the carrot is the better alternative, but it's reasonable to be mad at a system that holds you hostage like that.

kartan 8y ago

> Maybe this is an excessively callous view, but isn't all of this voluntary and self-imposed? Is the expectation for the reader to pity their condition? I guess that you are down voted because you are supporting a fallacy. Your comment supports the idea that you cannot change the system, and that the system is never at fault but individual people is. If this people wants to improve their situation there is no individual action that they can take that will make a big impact. Only if they unionize, or make changes in government they can achieve improvements in their lives. > When you start with nothing, and you want a lot, you end up getting exploited by a system that has major leverage over you. Yes. This is exactly what I mean. But, the rest of your comment seems to contradict this fact.

fulltrottle 8y ago

It's weird that that's a thing, considering how there are SO many startups both in Silicon Valley and Shenzen. You would think these companies would poach talent by providing perks like "4 day work week" or "unlimited vacation". The author of the article might have a point. Silicon Valley is starting to figure this out to some extent but China isn't yet Still I would think that since there's so many companies that these jobs would be extremely cushy. I guess the actual problem is that the label market is so much more saturated than the number of startups that they don't even have to poach talent at all