14 ms·

I read in New Scientist that they've discovered a way in mice to turn off the connection between pain receptors and the emotional response to pain in the brain.

I read in New Scientist that they've discovered a way in mice to turn off the connection between pain receptors and the emotional response to pain in the brain. So the mouse feels the pain in the sense of recognising it, but doesn't have a negative feeling associated with it. That's like a half-way point; you wouldn't injure yourself accidentally (as the woman), but you also wouldn't suffer if enduring chronic pain. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132143-900-silencing-brain-cells-in-mice-can-make-them-no-longer-care-about-pain/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132143-900-silencin...

maxxxxx 8y ago
Experienced meditators are supposed to achieve this. I have read that they can have surgery without anesthetics (Gandhi supposedly did it too). They feel the pain but they do not suffer from it.
- brm 8y ago
  source please.
  - ggggtez 8y ago
    Performing a double blind test on whether meditation can help you avoid pain would probably be unethical. Most of the claims about meditation are not verified. You could certainly expect to avoid some pain by meditating. Maybe you picked up a coffee cup that is a little too warm, and you just "mind-over-matter" through it. Sure. But if you got shot? Well, I can't imagine a scientist is going to feel comfortable actually testing anyone claiming they could meditate their way through that.
    - zeroxfe 8y ago
      > Performing a double blind test on whether meditation can help you avoid pain would probably be unethical Um... how does one even perform such a test? It's not like you don't know you're meditating.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526590009006919 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S152659000... https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591000223X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591... http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307
    - gotocake 8y ago
      Naively it makes sense, pain is just a sensation, but suffering is more complex. I doubt that we can truly shit off sensitivity to noxious stimuli, but meditation (and maybe some generic factors) seem like a way to manage reactions to that stimuli. Having said that, and skimming the links, I’d guess there’s a limit. A lot of what we’d naively expect to be excruciating is more upsetting and distressing than purely painful. Some things however, like inflammation of the trigemanal nerve, is really a source of intractable pain. I have my doubts that meditation would be of much use in that context, or extreme osteogenic pain.
- nessus42 8y ago
  You don't need to meditate to achieve this. You just need nitrous oxide. This is great for going to the dentist, but I suppose it's not so great for managing chronic pain, however.
  - darepublic 8y ago
    Wouldn't it be more natural to say, you don't need nitrous oxide to achieve this, you can practice to manage chronic pain.
    - ggggtez 8y ago
      "Natural" is just a buzzword. People have eaten plants for medicinal purposes since pre-historic times. Why should we shy away from advances in medicine and force the patients to re-wire their brains instead? Meditation is unnatural. The natural thing is to experience pain when something painful happens.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - vekker 8y ago
        Meditators still experience pain. They just train to "objectively" observe pain as pain, without creating more resistance - i.e. avoiding the "second arrow" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.th... IMHO there is currently no way to re-program your mind like that with external means.
- Sir_Vival 8y ago
  I get cluster headaches or something similar - still being diagnosed. Anyways, they're extremely painful, by far the most pain I've ever experienced. I have a meditation/visualization I do that largely negates the pain. I actually got the idea from The Dresden Files books, oddly enough - the main character does something similar at a few points throughout the series. It works, but only if I can wholly concentrate on it.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Can you share details? I have tried to work with pain and meditation but I have always failed with headaches. They seem to consume me totally.
orthecreedence 8y ago
I get migraines. Sign me up!

maxxxxx 8y ago

Experienced meditators are supposed to achieve this. I have read that they can have surgery without anesthetics (Gandhi supposedly did it too). They feel the pain but they do not suffer from it.

brm 8y ago
source please.
- ggggtez 8y ago
  Performing a double blind test on whether meditation can help you avoid pain would probably be unethical. Most of the claims about meditation are not verified. You could certainly expect to avoid some pain by meditating. Maybe you picked up a coffee cup that is a little too warm, and you just "mind-over-matter" through it. Sure. But if you got shot? Well, I can't imagine a scientist is going to feel comfortable actually testing anyone claiming they could meditate their way through that.
  - zeroxfe 8y ago
    > Performing a double blind test on whether meditation can help you avoid pain would probably be unethical Um... how does one even perform such a test? It's not like you don't know you're meditating.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526590009006919 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S152659000... https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-01983-012 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591000223X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439591... http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5540 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307 http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/46/15307
  - gotocake 8y ago
    Naively it makes sense, pain is just a sensation, but suffering is more complex. I doubt that we can truly shit off sensitivity to noxious stimuli, but meditation (and maybe some generic factors) seem like a way to manage reactions to that stimuli. Having said that, and skimming the links, I’d guess there’s a limit. A lot of what we’d naively expect to be excruciating is more upsetting and distressing than purely painful. Some things however, like inflammation of the trigemanal nerve, is really a source of intractable pain. I have my doubts that meditation would be of much use in that context, or extreme osteogenic pain.
nessus42 8y ago
You don't need to meditate to achieve this. You just need nitrous oxide. This is great for going to the dentist, but I suppose it's not so great for managing chronic pain, however.
- darepublic 8y ago
  Wouldn't it be more natural to say, you don't need nitrous oxide to achieve this, you can practice to manage chronic pain.
  - ggggtez 8y ago
    "Natural" is just a buzzword. People have eaten plants for medicinal purposes since pre-historic times. Why should we shy away from advances in medicine and force the patients to re-wire their brains instead? Meditation is unnatural. The natural thing is to experience pain when something painful happens.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - vekker 8y ago
      Meditators still experience pain. They just train to "objectively" observe pain as pain, without creating more resistance - i.e. avoiding the "second arrow" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.th... IMHO there is currently no way to re-program your mind like that with external means.
Sir_Vival 8y ago
I get cluster headaches or something similar - still being diagnosed. Anyways, they're extremely painful, by far the most pain I've ever experienced. I have a meditation/visualization I do that largely negates the pain. I actually got the idea from The Dresden Files books, oddly enough - the main character does something similar at a few points throughout the series. It works, but only if I can wholly concentrate on it.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Can you share details? I have tried to work with pain and meditation but I have always failed with headaches. They seem to consume me totally.

orthecreedence 8y ago

I get migraines. Sign me up!