8 ms·

As a junior developer for two years now, what frustrates me is not the responses to the questions I ask. I almost never had the urge to ask any questions, most

by soneca 8y ago

As a junior developer for two years now, what frustrates me is not the responses to the questions I ask. I almost never had the urge to ask any questions, most of them are already asked and answered in a similar enough form so I can learn from them. What do frustrates me is how I, as a newbie, am incapable of contributing to the site. I can't upvote an answer that was particularly good to my case. Dozens (literally dozens) of times I clicked to upvote an answer that was just the right one for my case and it wasn't the accepted or most upvoted answer. Only to get this as a reply: - "Thanks for the feedback! Votes cast by those with less than 15 reputation are recorded, but do not change the publicly displayed post score." What?? As a junior learning through an answer, I want to contribute it right away and acknowledge the person who helped it. As well as signalizing to other people that that answer is a good one. Why my upvote do not count? I don't understand the reason behind this design decision. Then I try to comment on the answer to make it explicit how it helped me and I get: - "You must have 50 reputation to comment" This rule at least I kind of understand the logic (avoid spamming, flamewars maybe?), but it does not make it any less frustrating. I cannot contribute to the site and to the people that helped me so much at the beginning of my learning path. I can Ask, Answer and Edit without any reputation threshold. But those are precisely what a junior developer will most likely not want to do while learning the basic stuff through SO. These design choices made me totally give up of any urge to participate in SO and I only consult the answers without engaging or recognizing any of the humans that helped me.

umvi 8y ago
Yeah, low rep restrictions are annoying. I think it's to discourage bot abuse and spam. If you can get 200 rep in any StackExchange site, then joining any other one will give you 100 rep to start off with, so I found it was worth it to answer/edit questions until I hit 200 rep
- ezrast 8y ago
  This was the answer for me. I accumulated 200 rep basically goofing off on codegolf.stackexchange.com and no longer feel hindered on other SE sites even as a mostly-passive user. If that's not your bag there are plenty of other subsites that are accessible to users with few tech chops: puzzling, worldbuilding, rpg, etc.
yroc92 8y ago
I’ve been a member of stack overflow and programming professionally for over 4 years and still can’t upvote, comment on or answer questions.
- EForEndeavour 8y ago
  Have you been engaging in actions that potentially earn you reputation points, e.g., editing or answering questions? If not, that's why. If you have, but your contributions have gone unrewarded, that's an SO problem.
  - bhandziuk 8y ago
    Not necessarily a SO problem. Some tags don't have a lot of traffic. Some answers aren't great.
- kbenson 8y ago
  I was a member and daily reader of HN for years before I started participating. You don't get down vote capabilities here until a much higher point threshold, and I think it helps. I think it's more likely to cause you to conform a bit to the community rather than clash with or disrupt it. You see it here occasionally, where someone is getting down voted and they don't know why, and someone will explain its most likely because they aren't acting within community norms (here it's back up factual assertions with sources, keep it civil, if you make a joke keep it topical or follow it up with something useful, don't just post memes, etc. Basically keep the signal to noise high). Limiting new users for a while when their initial mode of interaction may not fit will with the site is a sane choice, IMO, and if those new users never make the effort to go past that initial hurdle, it may be that their contributions are high enough risk that it's not worth it (or the hurdle could be too high).
- fhbdukfrh 8y ago
  Well, to be blunt is say you've been a consumer of SO. There's nothing wrong with this but I'd argue that if you don't have 15 rep after 4 years you've been paid back with the knowledge you've gained. If you can't find a way to get 50 rep on SO get 200 on any other exchange site and that will credit you 100
colmvp 8y ago
FWIW, the way I was able to bump my reputation up was suggesting edits. It's pretty satisfying spending months learning proper technique and then recognizing small coding inefficiencies made by more experienced coders.
tim333 8y ago
I found the "You must have 50 reputation to comment" frustrating at the start as well as an answer I was using was wrong as in the code didn't run which took me a while to alter and get it to work and I couldn't point it out. I guess you can get reputation by answering questions but it was annoying. Also as a relative newbie I could only answer quite dumb questions.
- richardw 8y ago
  Since you found the fix, you could post your update as an answer? With a "sorry I can't comment but here is what I found" disclaimer to your answer.
  - Shog9 8y ago
    You could even skip the "sorry I can't comment" bit; just as well to introduce with, "this is what I had to do to make [other answer] work". Answers are kinda the whole point after all; no shame in writing them...
    - tim333 8y ago
      Yeah guess so. I was new and didn't figure it.
fabian2k 8y ago
The restriction on upvoting is necessary to have any chance of handling vote fraud like users upvoting themselves with socks. If any new account could vote it would be far easier to cheat the system. 15 rep is also a very small barrier. Asking good questions or editing are probably the best ways to start. Editing is certainly something a new user can do, simply fixing the formatting, grammar and typos in new questions will give you 15 rep in no time.
- netok 8y ago
  All low hanging fruit were taken. You can ask good questions, but it would be too niche and nobody sees it. People see your low reputation and will automatically reject your edits with generic reason, even when I gave very detailed explanation in the note.
  - fabian2k 8y ago
    There are some non-obvious customs when editing answers, that's unlikely to go well as a very new user. But editing questions mostly for formatting and language is certainly doable without any reputation. I'm assuming the edits are reasonable itself, there are some odd patterns that you see regularly like people using code formatting (monospace font) for emphasis. That kind of edit will get stopped. Another option to get the basic SO privileges is to ask or answer on any other SE sites. There are many of them, and almost all are much, much easier to participate in.
  - bhandziuk 8y ago
    If people are rejecting legitimately good edits that's a problem. People looking through the review queue should be doing so with an open mind and an eye for the edits, not the person making the edits.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    Search for "teh": 7306 results. And that's only a typo. There's so much stuff that could be fixed...
    - 8y ago
everfree 8y ago
I understand that can be frustrating, but as you mentioned part of that is by design. Stack Overflow gets its success by being laser-focused on questions and answers, to the extreme that comments like "thanks" are seen as noise for developers to wade through to find the answers they are looking for. That's why they have such a high bar to comment - the number of "thanks" and "this solved my problem" comments would be a staggering moderation issue. Either that or the site would turn into a long-winded discussion forum. In short, only questions and answers add any real value to the site for the most part. If you really want to contribute to the community, consider diving in and writing questions and answers. As for upvoting, I understand that it's frustrating not to be able to vote in a community that you spend so much time in. But on the flip side, realize that 90% of the value of Stack Overflow comes from its questions and answers. If you want to contribute to the site, it only takes 3 upvotes across all your questions (or 2 across all your answers) to gain the upvote privilege permanently.
- netok 8y ago
  50 rep requirement for commenting is too high. Very often I have follow up question to ask the answerer but I can't and SO discourage private chat. That leaves me the only option of asking the question again. And of course it gets marked "duplicated" even though I emphasize a specific aspect of the question. At that point I just take a deep breath, close the SO tab, ask that question on Reddit.
  - tedmiston 8y ago
    If you want to avoid a similar sounding question getting marked as a dupe and closed, you can contextualize your question with the similar answers to show that you've searched and read them. For example, "I've read the answers to A, B, C (linked) and they get me this far, but now I'm trying to take that output and output it to YAML" etc. As mods / queue reviewers, we generally assume someone has not read (or found) similar questions if they don't mention this. I don't vote to close many questions as dupes unless it's clear the asker didn't even try to look at the related questions. I tend to close vote only on low effort questions that don't meet the minimal complete verifiable example (MCVE) best practices for asking a question. https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve To the comment on the 50 rep threshold, I believe you can hit this more easily than you think. For example, writing one answer that gets accepted (+15) with 3 upvotes (3x +10) is worth 45 rep. Then giving 3 suggested edits (3x +2) that get accepted is worth 6 to put you over 50. Suggested edits don't have to be big — you can look for common aspects of aging popular answers like outbound links that may now 404 or fixing grammar mistakes. A lot of people on Stack Overflow do not speak English as their first language, so if you do, you can help improve the clarity of their questions or answers which benefits the whole community. https://stackoverflow.com/help/whats-reputation https://stackoverflow.com/help/whats-reputation Here are some accepted edits I've made for inspiration. Many are simple one liners. https://stackoverflow.com/users/149428/taylor-edmiston?tab=activity&sort=revisions https://stackoverflow.com/users/149428/taylor-edmiston?tab=a...
lgregg 8y ago
I'm in the same position as you. I ended up answering a few questions and asking one. It took a day, or so, to get up to 64 rep which was more than enough for me.
tedmiston 8y ago
Have you tried suggesting edits to hit the 50 rep threshold? I think this is an easy route to hitting 50 rep. See my other comment in this thread for more specific examples of edits that are likely to get accepted.
kderbe 8y ago
15 reputation on Stack Overflow seems easy enough. I got it with a single answer on a low-traffic topic. 500 reputation for full Hacker News privileges, on the other hand, seems like quite the undertaking! I say this as a decade-long reader who still is far below that.

by soneca 8y ago

umvi 8y ago

Yeah, low rep restrictions are annoying. I think it's to discourage bot abuse and spam. If you can get 200 rep in any StackExchange site, then joining any other one will give you 100 rep to start off with, so I found it was worth it to answer/edit questions until I hit 200 rep

ezrast 8y ago
This was the answer for me. I accumulated 200 rep basically goofing off on codegolf.stackexchange.com and no longer feel hindered on other SE sites even as a mostly-passive user. If that's not your bag there are plenty of other subsites that are accessible to users with few tech chops: puzzling, worldbuilding, rpg, etc.

yroc92 8y ago

I’ve been a member of stack overflow and programming professionally for over 4 years and still can’t upvote, comment on or answer questions.

EForEndeavour 8y ago
Have you been engaging in actions that potentially earn you reputation points, e.g., editing or answering questions? If not, that's why. If you have, but your contributions have gone unrewarded, that's an SO problem.
- bhandziuk 8y ago
  Not necessarily a SO problem. Some tags don't have a lot of traffic. Some answers aren't great.
kbenson 8y ago
I was a member and daily reader of HN for years before I started participating. You don't get down vote capabilities here until a much higher point threshold, and I think it helps. I think it's more likely to cause you to conform a bit to the community rather than clash with or disrupt it. You see it here occasionally, where someone is getting down voted and they don't know why, and someone will explain its most likely because they aren't acting within community norms (here it's back up factual assertions with sources, keep it civil, if you make a joke keep it topical or follow it up with something useful, don't just post memes, etc. Basically keep the signal to noise high). Limiting new users for a while when their initial mode of interaction may not fit will with the site is a sane choice, IMO, and if those new users never make the effort to go past that initial hurdle, it may be that their contributions are high enough risk that it's not worth it (or the hurdle could be too high).
fhbdukfrh 8y ago
Well, to be blunt is say you've been a consumer of SO. There's nothing wrong with this but I'd argue that if you don't have 15 rep after 4 years you've been paid back with the knowledge you've gained. If you can't find a way to get 50 rep on SO get 200 on any other exchange site and that will credit you 100

colmvp 8y ago

FWIW, the way I was able to bump my reputation up was suggesting edits. It's pretty satisfying spending months learning proper technique and then recognizing small coding inefficiencies made by more experienced coders.

tim333 8y ago

I found the "You must have 50 reputation to comment" frustrating at the start as well as an answer I was using was wrong as in the code didn't run which took me a while to alter and get it to work and I couldn't point it out. I guess you can get reputation by answering questions but it was annoying. Also as a relative newbie I could only answer quite dumb questions.

richardw 8y ago
Since you found the fix, you could post your update as an answer? With a "sorry I can't comment but here is what I found" disclaimer to your answer.
- Shog9 8y ago
  You could even skip the "sorry I can't comment" bit; just as well to introduce with, "this is what I had to do to make [other answer] work". Answers are kinda the whole point after all; no shame in writing them...
  - tim333 8y ago
    Yeah guess so. I was new and didn't figure it.

fabian2k 8y ago

The restriction on upvoting is necessary to have any chance of handling vote fraud like users upvoting themselves with socks. If any new account could vote it would be far easier to cheat the system. 15 rep is also a very small barrier. Asking good questions or editing are probably the best ways to start. Editing is certainly something a new user can do, simply fixing the formatting, grammar and typos in new questions will give you 15 rep in no time.

netok 8y ago
All low hanging fruit were taken. You can ask good questions, but it would be too niche and nobody sees it. People see your low reputation and will automatically reject your edits with generic reason, even when I gave very detailed explanation in the note.
- fabian2k 8y ago
  There are some non-obvious customs when editing answers, that's unlikely to go well as a very new user. But editing questions mostly for formatting and language is certainly doable without any reputation. I'm assuming the edits are reasonable itself, there are some odd patterns that you see regularly like people using code formatting (monospace font) for emphasis. That kind of edit will get stopped. Another option to get the basic SO privileges is to ask or answer on any other SE sites. There are many of them, and almost all are much, much easier to participate in.
- bhandziuk 8y ago
  If people are rejecting legitimately good edits that's a problem. People looking through the review queue should be doing so with an open mind and an eye for the edits, not the person making the edits.
- viraptor 8y ago
  Search for "teh": 7306 results. And that's only a typo. There's so much stuff that could be fixed...
  - 8y ago

everfree 8y ago

I understand that can be frustrating, but as you mentioned part of that is by design. Stack Overflow gets its success by being laser-focused on questions and answers, to the extreme that comments like "thanks" are seen as noise for developers to wade through to find the answers they are looking for. That's why they have such a high bar to comment - the number of "thanks" and "this solved my problem" comments would be a staggering moderation issue. Either that or the site would turn into a long-winded discussion forum. In short, only questions and answers add any real value to the site for the most part. If you really want to contribute to the community, consider diving in and writing questions and answers. As for upvoting, I understand that it's frustrating not to be able to vote in a community that you spend so much time in. But on the flip side, realize that 90% of the value of Stack Overflow comes from its questions and answers. If you want to contribute to the site, it only takes 3 upvotes across all your questions (or 2 across all your answers) to gain the upvote privilege permanently.

netok 8y ago
50 rep requirement for commenting is too high. Very often I have follow up question to ask the answerer but I can't and SO discourage private chat. That leaves me the only option of asking the question again. And of course it gets marked "duplicated" even though I emphasize a specific aspect of the question. At that point I just take a deep breath, close the SO tab, ask that question on Reddit.
- tedmiston 8y ago
  If you want to avoid a similar sounding question getting marked as a dupe and closed, you can contextualize your question with the similar answers to show that you've searched and read them. For example, "I've read the answers to A, B, C (linked) and they get me this far, but now I'm trying to take that output and output it to YAML" etc. As mods / queue reviewers, we generally assume someone has not read (or found) similar questions if they don't mention this. I don't vote to close many questions as dupes unless it's clear the asker didn't even try to look at the related questions. I tend to close vote only on low effort questions that don't meet the minimal complete verifiable example (MCVE) best practices for asking a question. https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve To the comment on the 50 rep threshold, I believe you can hit this more easily than you think. For example, writing one answer that gets accepted (+15) with 3 upvotes (3x +10) is worth 45 rep. Then giving 3 suggested edits (3x +2) that get accepted is worth 6 to put you over 50. Suggested edits don't have to be big — you can look for common aspects of aging popular answers like outbound links that may now 404 or fixing grammar mistakes. A lot of people on Stack Overflow do not speak English as their first language, so if you do, you can help improve the clarity of their questions or answers which benefits the whole community. https://stackoverflow.com/help/whats-reputation https://stackoverflow.com/help/whats-reputation Here are some accepted edits I've made for inspiration. Many are simple one liners. https://stackoverflow.com/users/149428/taylor-edmiston?tab=activity&sort=revisions https://stackoverflow.com/users/149428/taylor-edmiston?tab=a...

lgregg 8y ago

I'm in the same position as you. I ended up answering a few questions and asking one. It took a day, or so, to get up to 64 rep which was more than enough for me.

tedmiston 8y ago

Have you tried suggesting edits to hit the 50 rep threshold? I think this is an easy route to hitting 50 rep. See my other comment in this thread for more specific examples of edits that are likely to get accepted.

kderbe 8y ago

15 reputation on Stack Overflow seems easy enough. I got it with a single answer on a low-traffic topic. 500 reputation for full Hacker News privileges, on the other hand, seems like quite the undertaking! I say this as a decade-long reader who still is far below that.