5 ms·

> You won't get to hear a minor chord continuously slide into a major one in pretty much any music you hear that was made with digital/software instruments/comp

• romwell 8y ago
  >I can go into FL Studio right now, add the two chords to the piano roll and set the notes to slide and it works. FL Slide Notes is a proprietary feature (a creative use of MIDI) that only works with FL Studio Plug-ins[1][2]. The new shiny plugin you got for that fat sound? No note slide for you. So, this is not a feature you can count on in any DAW, but specific to particular set of plug-ins. (In particular, Live had nothing like that last time I checked, nor did the DAW's I use). ROLI has a more advanced version of this, but again, the support is limited because it is not standard MIDI. [1]https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=187047 https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=187047 [2]https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=174776 https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=174776
  • dwringer 8y ago
    Portamento is a fairly standard feature on many synthesizers - there's no need to use MIDI to spell out the full range of sliding one note into another, or to use a pitch bend. On supporting instruments (such as a great number of vintage and modern analog synthesizers, and perhaps a majority of software synthesizers/samplers) MIDI can send a control to enable portamento (and to set a desired speed) right before moving from one set of notes to another. After the slide is done, portamento can be disabled with another MIDI control signal. This can be used precisely for the effect of sliding a minor chord into a major chord, for example. Admittedly, this does require that the instrument be designed with portamento support in mind, which does seem like it could be an arbitrary limitation on instruments that may otherwise be capable of only simple pitch bends (though since these typically affect all notes at once I'm still not sure how trivial the portamento idea would be to implement in general).
    • romwell 8y ago
      TL;DR: it doesn't quite work[1]. ------------------ >Portamento is a fairly standard feature On monophonic synthesizers. There's no standard on how that would work with polyphony (that would be pretty much equivalent to polyphonic pitch bend). With your trick, you'd still need to specify which note goes to which new note with portamento/glide, and there is no standard for that. The problem is usually worse with analog gear, where oscillators are commonly assigned to keys via a round-robin scheme. So enabling polyphonic portamento means that even if you play the same chord over and over, you'd hear the notes slide! Not quite what you intend. So while some polyphonic synths have portamento/glide in poly mode, lack of support in the protocol means that it acts unpredictably: you only have control of where the notes are sliding to, as a set. You can see the problem very clearly, using Behringer Deepmind 6 (6-voice analog with poly portamento) as an example here[1]. At this point, you break out your polyphony into voices, put each voice on its own track / MIDI channel, and pitch bend / portamento that (and record separately, if needed). And then you have the ROLI solution. Which is not compatible with any other MIDI controller. As I said, MIDI is hackable enough to allow one to do pretty much everything, but it's going to be non-standard. And standards and defaults matter. For that matter, that's why we have MPE[2], which is an extension of MIDI, but it's very, very new (2018-new). [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9cvMCHgB2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9cvMCHgB2s [2]http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/mpe.html http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/mpe.html
      • dwringer 8y ago
        Well for polyphony the "which note goes where" issue could, with creative sequencing, be solved by using different channels for each individual note to override the synthesizer's configured behavior [also enabling the use of simple pitch bends for the effect] - but I guess any good solution here will end up requiring even more hardware or software to allow this [it looks like this is essentially the goal of MPE] and, as you imply, arguably be a "nonstandard hack". But music IMHO is often about finding value and personal expression in the nonstandard along with the standard (perhaps I'm a little biased from too much jazz, because admittedly this isn't the case for all players in all styles). And musicians have certainly employed MIDI to use these techniques for decades. Regardless of my possibly misguided attempts at defending a 36-year-old spec, I absolutely still agree with you, however, that an improved standard could certainly make having more creative control simpler and easier, requiring fewer "hacks".
  • tomc1985 8y ago
    True, FL's note-slide is proprietary, but you do get some degree of pitch-bend (not sure if you can do it per-note without hacks) because of the mod wheels on keyboards MIDI CC messages are a bit more flexible, but you're still limited to "[Channel#] [CCCode] [Value]"
    • romwell 8y ago
      You can do everything with CC and NRPN. The problem is not the limitation of what you can send over the wire, but what is specified in the protocol. >(not sure if you can do it per-note without hacks) No can do. But hack it enough, and you get MPE[1], which is finally coming this year. [1]https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-polyphonic-expression...
• Nition 8y ago
  In standard MIDI you can only specify the pitch bend as a whole. So all three (or more) notes in your chord would bend the same amount.
  • romwell 8y ago
    Yes, but to bend a major chord to a minor they would need to bend by different amounts. There's no standard support for that in MIDI.
    • Nition 8y ago
      Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
  • dkdbejwi383 8y ago
    If you want to just bend the chord quality, ie slide the 3rd from minor to major, but leave the root & fifth, it’s not possible without MPE.