3 ms·

ISIS has a clearly defined religious teaching and a core part of their message is using power as well as violence to push their religious teachings onto others

ISIS has a clearly defined religious teaching and a core part of their message is using power as well as violence to push their religious teachings onto others to create a world Islamic kaliphate. On the other hand what is being called alt right and white supremacisrs by mainstream organizations is bullshit: - The economist called Ben Shapiro alt right today https://mobile.twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1111248348114239488 https://mobile.twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1111248348114... - The guardian says Jordan Peterson is supposedly alt right https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/201... - Bret Weinstein is supposedly alt right And ridiculously enough Ben Shapiro is a Jew that is the biggest hate target of the alt right, and Jordan Peterson is hated by the alt right such as Richard spencer and Vox Day.

joshuamorton 8y ago
You're including the alt right on an argument about white supremacists. Could you perhaps answer my questions without taking about the alt right, who aren't being discussed by anyone but you. White supremacists also advocate violence against other races often to subjugate them. This is highly similar to isis. Or are you claiming that all members of the alt right are white supremacists?
- asabjorn 8y ago
  ADL defines alt right and white supremacy to be the same: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alt-right-a-primer-about-the-new-white-supremacy https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alt-right-a-prim... SPLC also say they are the same: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/white-nationalist https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideo... The opinions of SPLC and ADL is especially relevant because mainstream media and social media companies such as Facebook seem to have relationships with them as well as similar orgs to define actions against people. So no, we are taking about the same poorly defined term because these orgs is an authority to Facebook. The reason it’s bullshit is that these orgs doesn’t relate it to truth and evidence, use their power to slap this label onto anyone that disagree with them and punish people for things they didn’t do.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    >This vague term actually encompasses a range of people on the extreme right who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of forms of conservatism that embrace implicit or explicit racism or white supremacy. Unless you're of the opinion that "racism" and "white supremacy" are synonymous, the ADL does not define them as the same. >So no, we are taking about the same poorly defined term. To be clear, the "alt right" isn't white nationalist, it is, however, a white nationalist recruiting tool. Sort of like how you don't just start out as a random person and then the next day you become Jihadi Jane. You're slowly radicalized. The alt right to full-on white supremacist pipeline is the same way. You start off interested in self help, so you read 12 rules for life; then get caught up in Peterson's weird ideas about western culture; then pretty soon you're seeing not just his youtube lectures, but other lectures about western culture; and then videos about the decline of white/western culture; and then you're watching Richard Spencer; then you shoot up a church. Now absolutely, granted, not everyone follows the entire path, very few people end up radicalized, but while I'll absolutely agree with you that Peterson isn't a white supremacist, he's absolutely a useful idiot for them. But again, let's stick to people who have been accused of being "White Supremacists" since you're the one using the term alt-right, not Facebook. Which innocent people are getting accidentally confused for "white supremacists" specifically?
    - asabjorn 8y ago
      From the same ADL source on white supremacy: > White supremacist Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute, a tiny white supremacist think tank, coined the term “Alternative Right” Or from the SPLC source: > The racist so-called “alt-right,” which came to prominence in late 2015, is white nationalism’s most recent formulation Both clearly use them in the same breath. We can argue semantics about one being the tool for the other etc etc. But that doesn't change the fact that they are being tightly related by organizations that is an authority to Facebook. SPLC and ADL is very aware of its power, and has related much of the prominent dissenters of wildly different ideologies to what they claim is alt-right; Maajid (an arab muslim, they lost a lawsuit on this one and apologized), Jordan Peterson (an individualist liberal), Ben Shapiro (a pretty normal conservative), Dave Rubin (a classical liberal) etc etc. SPLC and ADL are by this evidence too often bullshitters that don't relate what they say to truth, but instead relate it to their ideology that is not preoccupied with truth-seeking. It is really a shame their views are elevated like this as a justification for Facebooks and other organizations abuse of power.

joshuamorton 8y ago

You're including the alt right on an argument about white supremacists. Could you perhaps answer my questions without taking about the alt right, who aren't being discussed by anyone but you. White supremacists also advocate violence against other races often to subjugate them. This is highly similar to isis. Or are you claiming that all members of the alt right are white supremacists?

asabjorn 8y ago
ADL defines alt right and white supremacy to be the same: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alt-right-a-primer-about-the-new-white-supremacy https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alt-right-a-prim... SPLC also say they are the same: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/white-nationalist https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideo... The opinions of SPLC and ADL is especially relevant because mainstream media and social media companies such as Facebook seem to have relationships with them as well as similar orgs to define actions against people. So no, we are taking about the same poorly defined term because these orgs is an authority to Facebook. The reason it’s bullshit is that these orgs doesn’t relate it to truth and evidence, use their power to slap this label onto anyone that disagree with them and punish people for things they didn’t do.
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  >This vague term actually encompasses a range of people on the extreme right who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of forms of conservatism that embrace implicit or explicit racism or white supremacy. Unless you're of the opinion that "racism" and "white supremacy" are synonymous, the ADL does not define them as the same. >So no, we are taking about the same poorly defined term. To be clear, the "alt right" isn't white nationalist, it is, however, a white nationalist recruiting tool. Sort of like how you don't just start out as a random person and then the next day you become Jihadi Jane. You're slowly radicalized. The alt right to full-on white supremacist pipeline is the same way. You start off interested in self help, so you read 12 rules for life; then get caught up in Peterson's weird ideas about western culture; then pretty soon you're seeing not just his youtube lectures, but other lectures about western culture; and then videos about the decline of white/western culture; and then you're watching Richard Spencer; then you shoot up a church. Now absolutely, granted, not everyone follows the entire path, very few people end up radicalized, but while I'll absolutely agree with you that Peterson isn't a white supremacist, he's absolutely a useful idiot for them. But again, let's stick to people who have been accused of being "White Supremacists" since you're the one using the term alt-right, not Facebook. Which innocent people are getting accidentally confused for "white supremacists" specifically?
  - asabjorn 8y ago
    From the same ADL source on white supremacy: > White supremacist Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute, a tiny white supremacist think tank, coined the term “Alternative Right” Or from the SPLC source: > The racist so-called “alt-right,” which came to prominence in late 2015, is white nationalism’s most recent formulation Both clearly use them in the same breath. We can argue semantics about one being the tool for the other etc etc. But that doesn't change the fact that they are being tightly related by organizations that is an authority to Facebook. SPLC and ADL is very aware of its power, and has related much of the prominent dissenters of wildly different ideologies to what they claim is alt-right; Maajid (an arab muslim, they lost a lawsuit on this one and apologized), Jordan Peterson (an individualist liberal), Ben Shapiro (a pretty normal conservative), Dave Rubin (a classical liberal) etc etc. SPLC and ADL are by this evidence too often bullshitters that don't relate what they say to truth, but instead relate it to their ideology that is not preoccupied with truth-seeking. It is really a shame their views are elevated like this as a justification for Facebooks and other organizations abuse of power.