5 ms·

>I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair So we just settle for how things are? Why not at least to try to cut out some of the bullshit that

>I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair So we just settle for how things are? Why not at least to try to cut out some of the bullshit that absolutely doesn't need to be there?

scarface74 8y ago
Because I have bills to pay right now. But the alternative that is being proposed - unions - aren’t about fairness if your definition of fair is that people who work harder should be awarded more.
- lightedman 8y ago
  "Because I have bills to pay right now." That response pretty much spawns the existence of all of the currently-ongoing problems in America. Our founding fathers also had bills to pay, and yet they somehow managed to find time to start a war and create a new country. That was the 1700s. Why aren't you capable of doing that now?
- save_ferris 8y ago
  Can you provide some concrete evidence to back up your claim that unions treat everyone the same? Unions exist in hundreds of occupations in the US that have clear career progression. Police, teachers, pro athletes, pilots, manufacturing, and many many more utilize unions for labor negotiations. I don’t buy this sweeping generalization argument at all.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    "Denver teachers strike in bid to dismantle pay-for-performance system" https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-teachers-strike-bid-dismantle-pay-for-performance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e6dffacb736 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-t... Police Unions: "Why We Fight Against Performance Based Pay" http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ "Merit Pay for Police Officers Is Overruled by Labor Board" https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-police-officers-is-overruled-by-labor-board.html https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-po... "Why It Can Take Six Years to Fire an Inappropriate or Ineffective Teacher" https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-years-to-fire-an-inappropriate-or-ineffective-teacher https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-...
    - luckydata 8y ago
      Wow, that sounds really bad... until you read why. Have you tried to see if "pay for performance" schemes are weasel words by conservative politicians to institute damaging policies? The brainwashing runs deep in this country, a couple generations was taught to fight against their own interests in support of oligarchs and corporations and was sold as "democracy". We're witnessing the terminal phase of that, where it goes from here is up to us but you're killing all faith I have that we will have better lives in my lifetime. Some are born to be willing slaves and some are born to break the chains.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        From the NYT - the favorite magazine of the right: Even though the pay plan meant more money for many of its members, the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association filed an improper practice petition against the city, arguing that any changes in pay rates must be negotiated through collective bargaining. Tell me again why I would want this?

>I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair So we just settle for how things are? Why not at least to try to cut out some of the bullshit that absolutely doesn't need to be there?

scarface74 8y ago

Because I have bills to pay right now. But the alternative that is being proposed - unions - aren’t about fairness if your definition of fair is that people who work harder should be awarded more.

lightedman 8y ago
"Because I have bills to pay right now." That response pretty much spawns the existence of all of the currently-ongoing problems in America. Our founding fathers also had bills to pay, and yet they somehow managed to find time to start a war and create a new country. That was the 1700s. Why aren't you capable of doing that now?
save_ferris 8y ago
Can you provide some concrete evidence to back up your claim that unions treat everyone the same? Unions exist in hundreds of occupations in the US that have clear career progression. Police, teachers, pro athletes, pilots, manufacturing, and many many more utilize unions for labor negotiations. I don’t buy this sweeping generalization argument at all.
- scarface74 8y ago
  "Denver teachers strike in bid to dismantle pay-for-performance system" https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-teachers-strike-bid-dismantle-pay-for-performance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e6dffacb736 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-t... Police Unions: "Why We Fight Against Performance Based Pay" http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ "Merit Pay for Police Officers Is Overruled by Labor Board" https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-police-officers-is-overruled-by-labor-board.html https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-po... "Why It Can Take Six Years to Fire an Inappropriate or Ineffective Teacher" https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-years-to-fire-an-inappropriate-or-ineffective-teacher https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-...
  - luckydata 8y ago
    Wow, that sounds really bad... until you read why. Have you tried to see if "pay for performance" schemes are weasel words by conservative politicians to institute damaging policies? The brainwashing runs deep in this country, a couple generations was taught to fight against their own interests in support of oligarchs and corporations and was sold as "democracy". We're witnessing the terminal phase of that, where it goes from here is up to us but you're killing all faith I have that we will have better lives in my lifetime. Some are born to be willing slaves and some are born to break the chains.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      From the NYT - the favorite magazine of the right: Even though the pay plan meant more money for many of its members, the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association filed an improper practice petition against the city, arguing that any changes in pay rates must be negotiated through collective bargaining. Tell me again why I would want this?