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You're probably right about signalling, but I think there's a more sympathetic take. The story of the Buddha is of a prince who had all a person could ever want

You're probably right about signalling, but I think there's a more sympathetic take. The story of the Buddha is of a prince who had all a person could ever want, only to discover old-age, disease and death. He realized that suffering is inescapable and universal and therefore requires a universal solution. I'm not rich or powerful by any means, but I'm doing comparatively well financially and in health. But it's never enough. Systems like Buddhism or stoicism answer the question: "I seem to be doing well in life, but why do I still feel so shitty?"

mjburgess 8y ago
To put it another way: the basic features of human life are universal. Stress, betrayal, love, trust, anger, loneliness, etc. It doesnt really matter how pretty your rooms are or how much you own, the fundamentals don't change in their existence, only in their proportion. A poor person's life may be more stressful, but very plausibly, less lonely than a rich persons. Stoicism is a universal solution to a universal problem: the vicissitudes of life.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >To put it another way: the basic features of human life are universal. Stress, betrayal, love, trust, anger, loneliness, etc. Money can alleviate many of those problems -- it's just not a magic want to fix everything. Stress for example: you can be stressed for rent, for the cost of medical emergencies, for providing for your kids, etc. If you're rich, you don't need to stress for any of that. Not only that, you also don't end up homeless, broke after a surgery, and so on. Nor do you have to skip meals. And when money problem come in, even real love and familial relationships (not based on gold-digging) are stressed. Tons of families break and argue about money problems, especially in recessions etc. https://bgr.com/2018/02/13/money-buys-happiness-research-study/ https://bgr.com/2018/02/13/money-buys-happiness-research-stu... >It doesnt really matter how pretty your rooms are or how much you own, the fundamentals don't change in their existence, only in their proportion. Sure, you will still die, get lonely sometimes, or have friends betray you like a rich person. But that's what's common, how about what's much more difficult? If you want to become a scientist but can't afford to go to college, and can't even afford a scholarship because you need to work at the family farm and help the family, it does matter. And that's just one of myriads of examples. How about being lonely, not because you're anti-social or can't get friends, but because you're working 12 hours a day in some sweatshop? Or you're a single mother juggling two shitty jobs? Those are all common situations. And not just in some third world either.
  - RandomInteger4 8y ago
    I'm not sure how Stoicism wouldn't help someone too poor to go to college. Someone able to fully imbibe stoicism into their life in such a situation could study independently; college is not necessary to learn or to become a scientist.
  - mjburgess 8y ago
    How often have you insured your children for being kidnapped? How often have you been bound-up in a hotel room by robbers looking for jewellery? You know your marines body gaurd that follows you everywhere? Does he annoy you at all? Do you feel safe? Did your daughter overdose on coke at 27? Your son? Your comment just illustrates your ability to understand the unique problems of the poor. There are many such problems of the rich too. I'm not saying that all problems are equal. Only that you vastly under-estimate the "natural unhappiness" of people, and the "natural stress" of living when you think that money has some magical impact on that. It doesnt.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >How often have you insured your children for being kidnapped? How often have you been bound-up in a hotel room by robbers looking for jewellery? You know your marines body gaurd that follows you everywhere? Does he annoy you at all. Do you feel safe? Not the best counter-examples. Poor people live in much more crime-ridden places, and are much more frequently victims of violent crime... And regarding "did your daughter overdose on coke at 27? Your son?", No, poor/working/middle class kids mostly overdose on plain old heroin, crack, opioids, and the like, in much larger percentages...
HNLurker2 8y ago
Because just saying -ism and expecting to be on right side of school of thought isn't everything. (Sāti) mindfulness is just a trend (many many apps, guides etc)(1). One truly needs to cultivate concentration (which also helps at work) but it can't be done without mindfulness. Nothing more and nothing else and just keeping up with the literature of Buddhism (dharma books that Culadasa is working on to publish later this year(2) and this is advice from someone who practiced hundreds of hours and heard this advice many times. Otherthings like practicing chanting (waste of time) and owning Buddha popular statues (waste of money). (1) SSC reviews TMI and it's a fan of pragmatic Buddhists: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/28/book-review-the-mind-illuminated/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/28/book-review-the-mind-i... (2)https://www.amazon.com/John-Yates/e/B001K8ASV2%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share https://www.amazon.com/John-Yates/e/B001K8ASV2%3Fref=dbs_a_m...

mjburgess 8y ago

To put it another way: the basic features of human life are universal. Stress, betrayal, love, trust, anger, loneliness, etc. It doesnt really matter how pretty your rooms are or how much you own, the fundamentals don't change in their existence, only in their proportion. A poor person's life may be more stressful, but very plausibly, less lonely than a rich persons. Stoicism is a universal solution to a universal problem: the vicissitudes of life.

coldtea 8y ago
>To put it another way: the basic features of human life are universal. Stress, betrayal, love, trust, anger, loneliness, etc. Money can alleviate many of those problems -- it's just not a magic want to fix everything. Stress for example: you can be stressed for rent, for the cost of medical emergencies, for providing for your kids, etc. If you're rich, you don't need to stress for any of that. Not only that, you also don't end up homeless, broke after a surgery, and so on. Nor do you have to skip meals. And when money problem come in, even real love and familial relationships (not based on gold-digging) are stressed. Tons of families break and argue about money problems, especially in recessions etc. https://bgr.com/2018/02/13/money-buys-happiness-research-study/ https://bgr.com/2018/02/13/money-buys-happiness-research-stu... >It doesnt really matter how pretty your rooms are or how much you own, the fundamentals don't change in their existence, only in their proportion. Sure, you will still die, get lonely sometimes, or have friends betray you like a rich person. But that's what's common, how about what's much more difficult? If you want to become a scientist but can't afford to go to college, and can't even afford a scholarship because you need to work at the family farm and help the family, it does matter. And that's just one of myriads of examples. How about being lonely, not because you're anti-social or can't get friends, but because you're working 12 hours a day in some sweatshop? Or you're a single mother juggling two shitty jobs? Those are all common situations. And not just in some third world either.
- RandomInteger4 8y ago
  I'm not sure how Stoicism wouldn't help someone too poor to go to college. Someone able to fully imbibe stoicism into their life in such a situation could study independently; college is not necessary to learn or to become a scientist.
- mjburgess 8y ago
  How often have you insured your children for being kidnapped? How often have you been bound-up in a hotel room by robbers looking for jewellery? You know your marines body gaurd that follows you everywhere? Does he annoy you at all? Do you feel safe? Did your daughter overdose on coke at 27? Your son? Your comment just illustrates your ability to understand the unique problems of the poor. There are many such problems of the rich too. I'm not saying that all problems are equal. Only that you vastly under-estimate the "natural unhappiness" of people, and the "natural stress" of living when you think that money has some magical impact on that. It doesnt.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >How often have you insured your children for being kidnapped? How often have you been bound-up in a hotel room by robbers looking for jewellery? You know your marines body gaurd that follows you everywhere? Does he annoy you at all. Do you feel safe? Not the best counter-examples. Poor people live in much more crime-ridden places, and are much more frequently victims of violent crime... And regarding "did your daughter overdose on coke at 27? Your son?", No, poor/working/middle class kids mostly overdose on plain old heroin, crack, opioids, and the like, in much larger percentages...

HNLurker2 8y ago

Because just saying -ism and expecting to be on right side of school of thought isn't everything. (Sāti) mindfulness is just a trend (many many apps, guides etc)(1). One truly needs to cultivate concentration (which also helps at work) but it can't be done without mindfulness. Nothing more and nothing else and just keeping up with the literature of Buddhism (dharma books that Culadasa is working on to publish later this year(2) and this is advice from someone who practiced hundreds of hours and heard this advice many times. Otherthings like practicing chanting (waste of time) and owning Buddha popular statues (waste of money). (1) SSC reviews TMI and it's a fan of pragmatic Buddhists: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/28/book-review-the-mind-illuminated/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/28/book-review-the-mind-i... (2)https://www.amazon.com/John-Yates/e/B001K8ASV2%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share https://www.amazon.com/John-Yates/e/B001K8ASV2%3Fref=dbs_a_m...