3 ms·
I like the slightly provocative title. To the stoics themselves, wealth and power are indifferent: neither good or bad. I say that the title is provocative be
by bjornedstrom 8y ago
I like the slightly provocative title.
To the stoics themselves, wealth and power are indifferent: neither good or bad.
I say that the title is provocative because wealth and power often provoke people, as can be seen in this very discussion (here on Hacker News). Depending on where you come from and where you are in life, a phrase such as "rich and powerful" may call forth the negative stereotype of evil wealthy people, or it may call forth the positive stereotype of Hacker News style entrepreneurs.
It is much easier to be indifferent to wealth and power if you already have it.
My take on the supposed rise in popularity of stoicism is not that it appeals to the "rich and powerful" per se. I do however think it appeals to people who have found themselves in a situation when they no longer have obvious things to live for, which is certainly the case for these people.
If you suddenly find yourself with free time and autonomy, philosophy is a pretty good thing to fill the void with, I think.
- zcid 8y agoI have found a stoic attitude a great method by which to weather the ups and downs of life. Whether that means stubbing my toe, dealing with death, or finding myself without an income or a place to live, acceptance of the situation as it is prevents wasting time and energy railing against the inevitabilities of life.
- sankoz 8y agoDo you have small kids? Just curious, because having a small helpless human dependent on you for their survival and well being has made me change my attitude towards life a bit away from Stoicism.
- vanake 8y agoProbaly obvious to you, but why?
- marmaduke 8y agoStoicism is passive, parenting is punctually highly active
- fsloth 8y agoNot OP. Anecdotally stoicism does nothing for your capability to nurture your children or make actively wise choices. The best example of this is the painfully obvious one of Marcus Aurelius and his son Commodus. The main failure for the Roman empire was that he failed to name a successor worthy to the task, so Commodus got the gig. I don't know what his failures as a father were or were there any but Commodus came out just wrong either way. Either this teaches us one of two things or both: 1. even a wise sage is unable to heal his family or 2. Stoicism does not grant you universal wisdom. Either way, the outcome is that stoicism is obviously not a universal remedy. If you read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, the take out message is that the world is shit and people are horrible, but that is no reason not to behave as a gentleman and carry yourself with dignity. Stoicism can be applied by personal choice to various situations in ones life, but it's hard to make it into a socially pro-active philosophy. And yes, I generalized whole lot of stuff based on one example only. Call me bayesian.
- olau 8y agoYou can be a great preacher but a bad practitioner and vice versa. Your story reminds of people pointing fingers at misbehaving children of kindergarten teachers.
- morgancmartin 8y agoWhy do you suppose that is? I don't have kids myself, but if I ever did I think I would prioritize the incorporation of stoicism into their upbringing. Just as a stab in the dark, perhaps you perceive the philosophy of stoicism as being orthogonal to a healthy amount of flippancy in life? If that's the case then I would make the case that the two concepts aren't actually mutually exclusive.
- zcid 8y agoMy first is on the way. I can't say for sure what my views will be in 5 years, but even with pregnancy I know there are things that could go wrong. Will I suffer if something goes awry? Absolutely. But will I let it adversely affect my future state of being? I hope not. "So it goes"
- olau 8y agoI have. A right way to live with children is of course different from without children, but I don't think the two are incompatible? In fact, I think having children is helpful in improving your own attitudes, because it can be really put you to the test. I also think it can be helpful to have some kind of idea of what being a good human entails. For instance, instead of yelling "Don't do that!" I sometimes manage to ask "How does X look like? Are they happy?" Of course, one must respect that children have their own lives and are starting afresh - the set of values we've determined for ourselves isn't necessarily something we should interpret too strictly in the context of a child who hasn't yet had the chance to experience the world.
- curuinor 8y agoIt's also worth noting that the noted stoic philosopher and emperor Marcus Aurelius had completely worthless personal relationships, especially a son who ended up being remarkably poorly-raised. I saw a lot of folks who adhered to stoicism raise their kids very poorly: I don't know whether that's correlation (I think proximate causal factor is never seeing their kids) or causation.
- gnu8 8y agoYou're just talking about the downs though. No one needs stoicism to weather the ups of life. The rich are just jerking themselves off. Probably because they have some subconscious insecurity over the lack of suffering in their lives.
- zcid 8y agoOr stoicism applies most relevantly to the ups. From a Buddhist perspective, attachment to perceived pleasant moments leads to greater suffering when fortunes are reversed.