4 ms·

It's not a binary choice of being 100% perfect or not bothering - it's about small, meaningful steps in a better direction.

yostrovs 8y ago
Is it really "meaningful" to chop trees instead of using petroleum for single use items? I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero.
- random878 8y ago
  > I don't know exactly You sum up a fundamental problem of the world so well - you don't know, but you damn well wont let that stop you from formulating a strong opinion about it!
  - yostrovs 8y ago
    The point of view I'm expressing is skepticism of one thing accompanied by basic knowledge of another. You, on the other hand, are all knowing and skepticism has no place for you.
    - random878 8y ago
      > I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero. Sorry, I couldn't see your healthy skepticism as it was blocked from view by your statement of fact.
  - nfopfish 8y ago
    The composition of the oceanic "garbage patches" is about 50% discarded fishing gear [1]. The stuff you tend to find washed up on beaches contains a large proportion of land-originated bits and bobs such as lighters, toothbrushes, and beach sandals, but also a large fraction of already-partly-decomposed plastic fragments, impossible to ascribe to any particular source [2]. Personally I'm not in favour of an outright ban (give me back my 100 W lightbulbs and 2000 W vacuum cleaners!) but EU-wide taxation could surely disincentivize plastic cutlery with respect to bamboo or other decomposable. [1] https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/pollution/marine-plastics https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/pollution/marine-plastics [2] "Composition and potential origin of marine debris stranded in the Western Indian Ocean on remote Alphonse Island, Seychelles" Duhec et al. Marine Pollution Bulletin 96 (2015) 76–86
- barunio 8y ago
  The best alternatives to plastic cutlery, cups and plates are reusable items. Hopefully the benefit of reusable vs disposable from an environmental perspective is obvious to you. When that is not an option, then bamboo, wood, and numerous other plant based items are much, much better than plastic. Depending on the source, they mostly have lower embodied energy, and more importantly they are able to easily undergo aerobic digestion to create a full carbon cycle. Even in a sealed landfill where oxygen is not present, they can be used in a waste to energy cycle without incineration. All plastics - all of them, including polyethylene and polypropylene which are most commonly used for these items, are endocrine disruptors. They are wreaking havoc on every biological organism on our planet, impacting reproduction in vital ways. Marks my words that plastics will be seen in twenty years as coal and fossil fuels are seen now. This is an existential threat to life as currently evolved to the same order as climate change. If our forbears had been using materials in this way, our world would be unrecognizable compared to what we see now.

yostrovs 8y ago

Is it really "meaningful" to chop trees instead of using petroleum for single use items? I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero.

random878 8y ago
> I don't know exactly You sum up a fundamental problem of the world so well - you don't know, but you damn well wont let that stop you from formulating a strong opinion about it!
- yostrovs 8y ago
  The point of view I'm expressing is skepticism of one thing accompanied by basic knowledge of another. You, on the other hand, are all knowing and skepticism has no place for you.
  - random878 8y ago
    > I don't know exactly, but the impact difference on trash in the ocean will approach zero. Sorry, I couldn't see your healthy skepticism as it was blocked from view by your statement of fact.
- nfopfish 8y ago
  The composition of the oceanic "garbage patches" is about 50% discarded fishing gear [1]. The stuff you tend to find washed up on beaches contains a large proportion of land-originated bits and bobs such as lighters, toothbrushes, and beach sandals, but also a large fraction of already-partly-decomposed plastic fragments, impossible to ascribe to any particular source [2]. Personally I'm not in favour of an outright ban (give me back my 100 W lightbulbs and 2000 W vacuum cleaners!) but EU-wide taxation could surely disincentivize plastic cutlery with respect to bamboo or other decomposable. [1] https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/pollution/marine-plastics https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/pollution/marine-plastics [2] "Composition and potential origin of marine debris stranded in the Western Indian Ocean on remote Alphonse Island, Seychelles" Duhec et al. Marine Pollution Bulletin 96 (2015) 76–86
barunio 8y ago
The best alternatives to plastic cutlery, cups and plates are reusable items. Hopefully the benefit of reusable vs disposable from an environmental perspective is obvious to you. When that is not an option, then bamboo, wood, and numerous other plant based items are much, much better than plastic. Depending on the source, they mostly have lower embodied energy, and more importantly they are able to easily undergo aerobic digestion to create a full carbon cycle. Even in a sealed landfill where oxygen is not present, they can be used in a waste to energy cycle without incineration. All plastics - all of them, including polyethylene and polypropylene which are most commonly used for these items, are endocrine disruptors. They are wreaking havoc on every biological organism on our planet, impacting reproduction in vital ways. Marks my words that plastics will be seen in twenty years as coal and fossil fuels are seen now. This is an existential threat to life as currently evolved to the same order as climate change. If our forbears had been using materials in this way, our world would be unrecognizable compared to what we see now.