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What an odd thing to say in a thread about discrimination. "The last thing I want is someone to protect me from widespread discrimination, after all, why would

by loteck 8y ago

What an odd thing to say in a thread about discrimination. "The last thing I want is someone to protect me from widespread discrimination, after all, why would I? Look at all my merits!" The point of age discrimination is that none of your merits matter, the only thing that matters is that someone doesnt like your age, and you're out.

scarface74 8y ago
I’ve also said that I think ageism is overblown in software engineering. Yes, this is a clear cut case of discrimination what happened with IBM. But, IBM is far from being a software engineering focused company. I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair. I’ve learned a long time ago not to depend on a job for my livelihood, but my career. For software engineers who have kept their skills current, live in a major metropolitan area in the US, and have kept their network strong, in 2019, I know for a fact that companies are falling all over themselves to hire us. How many people at IBM fall in that category? Given the choice between unionizing and taking the tact I recommend - changing jobs anytime you see that your skills are falling behind the market, keeping your resume up to date, keeping in touch with former managers and coworkers and just really not being complacent- I would prefer keeping my future in my own hands. I said in another post that I’m 45, Black, with a mild disability that only allows me to type with one hand. If anyone theoretically should have to worry about discrimination it’s me.
- mkane848 8y ago
  >I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair So we just settle for how things are? Why not at least to try to cut out some of the bullshit that absolutely doesn't need to be there?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Because I have bills to pay right now. But the alternative that is being proposed - unions - aren’t about fairness if your definition of fair is that people who work harder should be awarded more.
    - lightedman 8y ago
      "Because I have bills to pay right now." That response pretty much spawns the existence of all of the currently-ongoing problems in America. Our founding fathers also had bills to pay, and yet they somehow managed to find time to start a war and create a new country. That was the 1700s. Why aren't you capable of doing that now?
    - save_ferris 8y ago
      Can you provide some concrete evidence to back up your claim that unions treat everyone the same? Unions exist in hundreds of occupations in the US that have clear career progression. Police, teachers, pro athletes, pilots, manufacturing, and many many more utilize unions for labor negotiations. I don’t buy this sweeping generalization argument at all.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        "Denver teachers strike in bid to dismantle pay-for-performance system" https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-teachers-strike-bid-dismantle-pay-for-performance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e6dffacb736 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-t... Police Unions: "Why We Fight Against Performance Based Pay" http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ "Merit Pay for Police Officers Is Overruled by Labor Board" https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-police-officers-is-overruled-by-labor-board.html https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-po... "Why It Can Take Six Years to Fire an Inappropriate or Ineffective Teacher" https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-years-to-fire-an-inappropriate-or-ineffective-teacher https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-...
        luckydata 8y ago
        Wow, that sounds really bad... until you read why. Have you tried to see if "pay for performance" schemes are weasel words by conservative politicians to institute damaging policies? The brainwashing runs deep in this country, a couple generations was taught to fight against their own interests in support of oligarchs and corporations and was sold as "democracy". We're witnessing the terminal phase of that, where it goes from here is up to us but you're killing all faith I have that we will have better lives in my lifetime. Some are born to be willing slaves and some are born to break the chains.
e40 8y ago
Every time unions come up here on HN, this is a common sentiment. I just confuses the hell out of me, too. Unions got fat and lazy, but a recent SCOTUS ruling[1] will very likely change that. No longer can unions force employees to be part of it. Until that ruling, there was no accountability. Now, the bad unions will need to be more responsive to their membership. Btw, this SCOTUS battle was billed as conservative vs liberal, but I'm liberal and I welcomed this decision. I think it is the best thing to happy to unions in a long time. It could have the opposite effect that conservatives want, which is to make unions more responsive to their members and more effective in doing what they are supposed to do. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court-unions-organized-labor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court...

by loteck 8y ago

scarface74 8y ago

I’ve also said that I think ageism is overblown in software engineering. Yes, this is a clear cut case of discrimination what happened with IBM. But, IBM is far from being a software engineering focused company. I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair. I’ve learned a long time ago not to depend on a job for my livelihood, but my career. For software engineers who have kept their skills current, live in a major metropolitan area in the US, and have kept their network strong, in 2019, I know for a fact that companies are falling all over themselves to hire us. How many people at IBM fall in that category? Given the choice between unionizing and taking the tact I recommend - changing jobs anytime you see that your skills are falling behind the market, keeping your resume up to date, keeping in touch with former managers and coworkers and just really not being complacent- I would prefer keeping my future in my own hands. I said in another post that I’m 45, Black, with a mild disability that only allows me to type with one hand. If anyone theoretically should have to worry about discrimination it’s me.

mkane848 8y ago
>I also don’t live in a fantasy land where the world is fair So we just settle for how things are? Why not at least to try to cut out some of the bullshit that absolutely doesn't need to be there?
- scarface74 8y ago
  Because I have bills to pay right now. But the alternative that is being proposed - unions - aren’t about fairness if your definition of fair is that people who work harder should be awarded more.
  - lightedman 8y ago
    "Because I have bills to pay right now." That response pretty much spawns the existence of all of the currently-ongoing problems in America. Our founding fathers also had bills to pay, and yet they somehow managed to find time to start a war and create a new country. That was the 1700s. Why aren't you capable of doing that now?
  - save_ferris 8y ago
    Can you provide some concrete evidence to back up your claim that unions treat everyone the same? Unions exist in hundreds of occupations in the US that have clear career progression. Police, teachers, pro athletes, pilots, manufacturing, and many many more utilize unions for labor negotiations. I don’t buy this sweeping generalization argument at all.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      "Denver teachers strike in bid to dismantle pay-for-performance system" https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-teachers-strike-bid-dismantle-pay-for-performance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e6dffacb736 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/02/11/denver-t... Police Unions: "Why We Fight Against Performance Based Pay" http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ http://www.mesampa.com/why-we-fight-against-performance-pay/ "Merit Pay for Police Officers Is Overruled by Labor Board" https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-police-officers-is-overruled-by-labor-board.html https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/03/nyregion/merit-pay-for-po... "Why It Can Take Six Years to Fire an Inappropriate or Ineffective Teacher" https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-years-to-fire-an-inappropriate-or-ineffective-teacher https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/why-it-can-take-six-...
      - luckydata 8y ago
        Wow, that sounds really bad... until you read why. Have you tried to see if "pay for performance" schemes are weasel words by conservative politicians to institute damaging policies? The brainwashing runs deep in this country, a couple generations was taught to fight against their own interests in support of oligarchs and corporations and was sold as "democracy". We're witnessing the terminal phase of that, where it goes from here is up to us but you're killing all faith I have that we will have better lives in my lifetime. Some are born to be willing slaves and some are born to break the chains.

e40 8y ago

Every time unions come up here on HN, this is a common sentiment. I just confuses the hell out of me, too. Unions got fat and lazy, but a recent SCOTUS ruling[1] will very likely change that. No longer can unions force employees to be part of it. Until that ruling, there was no accountability. Now, the bad unions will need to be more responsive to their membership. Btw, this SCOTUS battle was billed as conservative vs liberal, but I'm liberal and I welcomed this decision. I think it is the best thing to happy to unions in a long time. It could have the opposite effect that conservatives want, which is to make unions more responsive to their members and more effective in doing what they are supposed to do. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court-unions-organized-labor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/us/politics/supreme-court...