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Do you have some statistics on this analogy? I'm curious how many children have died in recent years from not getting a vaccination. I'm honestly not taking one

Do you have some statistics on this analogy? I'm curious how many children have died in recent years from not getting a vaccination. I'm honestly not taking one side or the other, but it's clear that you can't have an honest debate on this subject without being called an "anti-vaxxer" and "anti-science" and the like.

cloverich 8y ago
The general point of the analogy is that the risk of vaccination is sufficiently low that eschewing it should be equated with reckless child endangerment. > how many children have died in recent years from not getting a vaccination There's actually not a straight forward answer to that question, because its an (unintentionally) loaded question. Lets focus it specifically on Measles. The natural death rate from measles is not high. Couple that with herd immunity that most non-vaccinated children benefit from, and high quality medical treatments available in (e.g.) the US, and you'd expect it to be low. Definitely higher than the death rate from vaccines, but low. But that's excluding both morbidity, and side-effects of Measles. There's this false belief that getting viruses (like Measles) and surviving them make you stronger. The opposite is more common -- Measles in particular opens you up to re-infection from things you already had because it partially wipes out your immune system. Some viruses are not as bad, others are even worse (e.g. might tilt your immune system towards cancer). After all, viruses are hijacking your body's cellular replication machinery and if they happen to muck with some other stuff in the process, what do they care? Do you think that is a fair answer to your question? As for honest debates, you'll find a great deal fatigue on the vaccine side, because frankly vaccines have decades of studies, evidence, and readily available information supporting their use. Of all the medical interventions available, they are the cheapest, safest, and most effective measures available, and perhaps the greatest breakthrough medicine will ever have.
- burgerzzz 8y ago
  Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I honestly don't know the least on this subject, but I'll do more research. I certainly don't doubt the value of vaccines, I'm somewhat familiar with the impact of polio, and likewise the impact of the vaccine. I think the inner cynic in me is troubled by the total heap on attitude of everyone towards the subject, so much so that now I think any discussion of it is blocked on Facebook and other socials. It seems like I missed the public debate on this and other topics because I didn't have social accounts, I don't know. If you or anyone else has any suggestions for any non-politicized books on the matter, I would be happy to report back on my thoughts afterwords.

cloverich 8y ago

The general point of the analogy is that the risk of vaccination is sufficiently low that eschewing it should be equated with reckless child endangerment. > how many children have died in recent years from not getting a vaccination There's actually not a straight forward answer to that question, because its an (unintentionally) loaded question. Lets focus it specifically on Measles. The natural death rate from measles is not high. Couple that with herd immunity that most non-vaccinated children benefit from, and high quality medical treatments available in (e.g.) the US, and you'd expect it to be low. Definitely higher than the death rate from vaccines, but low. But that's excluding both morbidity, and side-effects of Measles. There's this false belief that getting viruses (like Measles) and surviving them make you stronger. The opposite is more common -- Measles in particular opens you up to re-infection from things you already had because it partially wipes out your immune system. Some viruses are not as bad, others are even worse (e.g. might tilt your immune system towards cancer). After all, viruses are hijacking your body's cellular replication machinery and if they happen to muck with some other stuff in the process, what do they care? Do you think that is a fair answer to your question? As for honest debates, you'll find a great deal fatigue on the vaccine side, because frankly vaccines have decades of studies, evidence, and readily available information supporting their use. Of all the medical interventions available, they are the cheapest, safest, and most effective measures available, and perhaps the greatest breakthrough medicine will ever have.

burgerzzz 8y ago
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I honestly don't know the least on this subject, but I'll do more research. I certainly don't doubt the value of vaccines, I'm somewhat familiar with the impact of polio, and likewise the impact of the vaccine. I think the inner cynic in me is troubled by the total heap on attitude of everyone towards the subject, so much so that now I think any discussion of it is blocked on Facebook and other socials. It seems like I missed the public debate on this and other topics because I didn't have social accounts, I don't know. If you or anyone else has any suggestions for any non-politicized books on the matter, I would be happy to report back on my thoughts afterwords.