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I’m in my late 20s and I’ve already learned not to trust our society/economy to ensure that I’ll have a stable financial future. You need to have a plan and be

by sp527 8y ago

I’m in my late 20s and I’ve already learned not to trust our society/economy to ensure that I’ll have a stable financial future. You need to have a plan and be doubly hedged against shittiness. Keep costs low. Save and invest. Job hop as much as necessary to boost your income. Try to build a business that can generate wealth (but don’t depend on that outcome). Above all trust no one to care for you. Not your government. Not a company offering options. Not even FAANG. Be ruthless and look out for yourself and those you love first and foremost. No one else will.

neilv 8y ago
I think you generally have the right idea (go Bogleheads for the investing part), but please go easy on the "ruthless" part. There's way too much of that already in this industry and in the world, and it would be better for everyone if we tried to move the norm.
- sp527 8y ago
  I know it doesn’t sound like it but I consider myself a fairly principled person. Ruthless is a deliberately suggestive word I chose to drive home the extent to which I believe it’s necessary to self-optimize. I did not mean for it to imply ‘amoral’ or that a person should devote all their time to the pursuit of money. My intent was simply that people should never be deluded into thinking that the fluff like emotional appeals, a company’s ‘mission’, a startup posturing as a family, internal propaganda, etc are things that really matter. If you are exchanging your time for money, my opinion is you should always get to the heart of what’s important: “What’s in it for me?” Related questions: “Can this business be successful?” “What are the true (non-bullshit) hard numbers that underpin this business?” “Will I be compensated according to the value I’m creating?” “What’s the value of the career capital I’ll get out of this?” My experience is that a good number of modern tech companies will leave the answers to these questions deliberately opaque. Ideally you also avoid working for unprincipled organizations that are rationalizing bad behavior. But that’s not always feasible because it could imply a high opportunity cost. For example, having seen it from the inside, Facebook is in my opinion a shitshow. They will do absolutely anything that isn’t outright illegal (including things that would seem blatantly unethical to a neurotypical person) to pad their bottom line. But they pay well and it looks good on your resume. And that tragic cycle of ‘do shitty things -> make more money -> grow -> hire more people -> repeat’ is the dumpster fire we’ve collectively chosen to base our society on. ‘Hate the game not the player’ more or less captures how I feel about all of this.
  - neilv 8y ago
    I think we're thinking much alike. I just cringe at the thought of "ruthless" being misheard as validation of some currently prevailing cultural behavior. We can understand a new college grad naively walking into a well-paid "shitshow" (though we shouldn't forgive their college), but once the person understands better, they need to think rationally about who they want to be and what they want to do, not have help rationalizing.
readhn 8y ago
Not sure i buy this. Life is not about accumulating the most amount of wealth. Its about building meaningful relationships that last a life time. Why would someone "job hob" if they really like the team/company? Yes you may make "more" at the next Co. but chances are your team/management will suck big time. Find what you love/who you love and stick with it.
- scarface74 8y ago
  This has to be the worse piece of advice I’ve read in a long time and I read r/cscareerquestions. If you stay at a job you love one of two things will happen. - you will get cost of living wages while people doing your same job will come in and get market wages. - you will “love” your job and your job won’t reciprocate and you will find yourself unable to find a new one because you haven’t kept your network strong, your resume up to date, or your skillset current and you will be crying “ageism” while people who have done all of the above won’t have the same issue.
  - readhn 8y ago
    im not talking about situations where you love your job and your job "does not love you back". Im talking about situations where its mutual. in those very rare situations you stay and dont move around because: - you do get your salary bumped every year with consistent raises - you get promoted and grow along with the company. Its rare but it happens. when it happens you stick with the company and build something great.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      I bet the people at IBM thought the love was mutual too....
      - readhn 8y ago
        Its hard to find these days a decent company that is run properly and that really cares for its employees. i just finished a cycle of interviews and hiring managers viewed long stay at a company as a definite positive. They in fact disliked job hoppers (every 2-3 years new job) as it damages companies in the long run according to them.
52-6F-62 8y ago
While I sympathize with your concern and your leaning towards preparedness, try for a moment to imagine a world where that attitude was absolute and universal. It wouldn’t form a cohesive society. It at best might leave you with the image of one where any sort of good natured acts would be little better than lies, manipulation, or posturing—all for personal gain. It would be a pretty ugly place—and society outside of raw material necessity would not really exist in substance. Be good to yourself, and try to do right by your loved ones, but I don’t think it should be so heavy as all that.
HillaryBriss 8y ago
> Keep costs low. Save and invest. another difficult question: what to invest in? I mean look at all the dumb money clamoring to get into an SV VC fund.
- sp527 8y ago
  Look up asset allocation. I would ignore exotic asset classes entirely unless extremely wealthy.
shard972 8y ago
Western Civilization seems to progressing along just swimmingly.

by sp527 8y ago

neilv 8y ago

I think you generally have the right idea (go Bogleheads for the investing part), but please go easy on the "ruthless" part. There's way too much of that already in this industry and in the world, and it would be better for everyone if we tried to move the norm.

sp527 8y ago
I know it doesn’t sound like it but I consider myself a fairly principled person. Ruthless is a deliberately suggestive word I chose to drive home the extent to which I believe it’s necessary to self-optimize. I did not mean for it to imply ‘amoral’ or that a person should devote all their time to the pursuit of money. My intent was simply that people should never be deluded into thinking that the fluff like emotional appeals, a company’s ‘mission’, a startup posturing as a family, internal propaganda, etc are things that really matter. If you are exchanging your time for money, my opinion is you should always get to the heart of what’s important: “What’s in it for me?” Related questions: “Can this business be successful?” “What are the true (non-bullshit) hard numbers that underpin this business?” “Will I be compensated according to the value I’m creating?” “What’s the value of the career capital I’ll get out of this?” My experience is that a good number of modern tech companies will leave the answers to these questions deliberately opaque. Ideally you also avoid working for unprincipled organizations that are rationalizing bad behavior. But that’s not always feasible because it could imply a high opportunity cost. For example, having seen it from the inside, Facebook is in my opinion a shitshow. They will do absolutely anything that isn’t outright illegal (including things that would seem blatantly unethical to a neurotypical person) to pad their bottom line. But they pay well and it looks good on your resume. And that tragic cycle of ‘do shitty things -> make more money -> grow -> hire more people -> repeat’ is the dumpster fire we’ve collectively chosen to base our society on. ‘Hate the game not the player’ more or less captures how I feel about all of this.
- neilv 8y ago
  I think we're thinking much alike. I just cringe at the thought of "ruthless" being misheard as validation of some currently prevailing cultural behavior. We can understand a new college grad naively walking into a well-paid "shitshow" (though we shouldn't forgive their college), but once the person understands better, they need to think rationally about who they want to be and what they want to do, not have help rationalizing.

readhn 8y ago

Not sure i buy this. Life is not about accumulating the most amount of wealth. Its about building meaningful relationships that last a life time. Why would someone "job hob" if they really like the team/company? Yes you may make "more" at the next Co. but chances are your team/management will suck big time. Find what you love/who you love and stick with it.

scarface74 8y ago
This has to be the worse piece of advice I’ve read in a long time and I read r/cscareerquestions. If you stay at a job you love one of two things will happen. - you will get cost of living wages while people doing your same job will come in and get market wages. - you will “love” your job and your job won’t reciprocate and you will find yourself unable to find a new one because you haven’t kept your network strong, your resume up to date, or your skillset current and you will be crying “ageism” while people who have done all of the above won’t have the same issue.
- readhn 8y ago
  im not talking about situations where you love your job and your job "does not love you back". Im talking about situations where its mutual. in those very rare situations you stay and dont move around because: - you do get your salary bumped every year with consistent raises - you get promoted and grow along with the company. Its rare but it happens. when it happens you stick with the company and build something great.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I bet the people at IBM thought the love was mutual too....
    - readhn 8y ago
      Its hard to find these days a decent company that is run properly and that really cares for its employees. i just finished a cycle of interviews and hiring managers viewed long stay at a company as a definite positive. They in fact disliked job hoppers (every 2-3 years new job) as it damages companies in the long run according to them.

52-6F-62 8y ago

While I sympathize with your concern and your leaning towards preparedness, try for a moment to imagine a world where that attitude was absolute and universal. It wouldn’t form a cohesive society. It at best might leave you with the image of one where any sort of good natured acts would be little better than lies, manipulation, or posturing—all for personal gain. It would be a pretty ugly place—and society outside of raw material necessity would not really exist in substance. Be good to yourself, and try to do right by your loved ones, but I don’t think it should be so heavy as all that.

HillaryBriss 8y ago

> Keep costs low. Save and invest. another difficult question: what to invest in? I mean look at all the dumb money clamoring to get into an SV VC fund.

sp527 8y ago
Look up asset allocation. I would ignore exotic asset classes entirely unless extremely wealthy.

shard972 8y ago

Western Civilization seems to progressing along just swimmingly.