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> If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. I struggled with this for a long time. I'd decid

> If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. I struggled with this for a long time. I'd decide that I wanted to go to bed earlier, and wake up earlier, but would always fail with the former. I'd get in bed in time, but would never be able to fall asleep. It turns out the solution is really simple... The silver bullet was: Don't focus on bed time. That will come naturally. Go to bed whenever you can. The key is to WAKE UP early, every morning. Regardless of what time you went to bed, WAKE UP at your target hour the next morning. Also - exercise each day. For me, lifting heavy weights and sleeping too little, quickly fixed my "too much energy" at night problem.

tomcam 8y ago
It turns out that neither of your two solutions has worked for me. In fact, the only thing that came remotely close was giving up caffeine. Sleep is complex.
thanatropism 8y ago
I feel like one out of my every three posts on HN are about the same thing, but this is dangerous advice for people with bipolar disorder, who could be up to 2% of the population.[0] Not long ago there was a stigma about this thing that wasn't just about hiding it, it was about "it won't happen to me, I'm not crazy". But you can be in your mid 40s or early 50s before you have a first episode[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder [1] http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-44462004000700007&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en#fig1 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516...
- travisjungroth 8y ago
  Go to sleep when you can, wake up early and lift weights is dangerous advice for people with bipolar? It almost seems like you responded to a different comment (pull an all-nighter to reset your cycle).
  - thanatropism 8y ago
    It is. Lost sleep is a snowball. It's very easier for bipolars in a manic or even hypomanic state to sleep 5, 4, 2 hours a night and feel well-rested and ready to pull weights. But diagnosed bipolar people know this. This is potentially harmful advice because many people may not know they have a latent bipolar disorder that hasn't manifested yet. In my parent comment I gave a histogram of the age of onset of one's first episode -- it's well possible to be a nondescript software engineer in one's early 40s and literally go crazy. Of course, your proposal also has merits, so people should weigh risks and benefits. Also note family history, history of depression, etc. which are also risk factors. Here's a recent survey of what w know about bipolars and sleep https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ But basically this has been known empirically since old-timey asylums. Hippocrates probably has a hint of this as a factor of the "sacred disease". It's a fact.
    - arandr0x 8y ago
      But the prevalence of bipolar disorder in the population is like, 1% right? So if you have disturbed sleep in that sense (sleep 4-5h for weeks on end, but feel alert and well-rested) it is still quite unlikely to be due to undiagnosed bipolar? (vs needing less sleep naturally, using too much coffee, blue light, whatever)
      - thanatropism 8y ago
        Edit: maybe this communicates it better to some people - bipolar is a tail risk of sleep deprivation / experimentation with sleep schedules / etc. It is low-probability. But not fucking with your sleep is "antifragile". If you agree with Taleb generally, you won't risk it. The downsides are immense. You can easily spend all your savings in one weekend buying soviet filmmaking gear. And that's just the financial side. Bipolar is treatable but doesn't go away. It's just easier to handle. You go to the grave with your pillbox in hand, just in case they buried you alive. The minor disruption of having to take a handful of pills every night, 3 minutes times 365 days times 35 years = 2100 hours. You could probably learn French, German and Italian in that time. I'm refraining from talking about the major downsides. Educate yourself. --- You can also have a latent allergy to peanuts but you always ate small portions. Then someone says "eat only peanuts for a week" and someone says "beware, some allergies are cumulative-exposure, you could be especially sensitive". Then you weigh your risks and benefits. Maybe have someone around to help you if you choke. With bipolar you won't know what's happening right away. It will seem you're having the best period of your life (and you are!). Weigh your risks and benefits. What's being proposed is a lifehack. You could also try to sleep right the way your mother taught you to.
hnick 8y ago
I've had cases where I exercised and I couldn't sleep because I felt like I was burning up. My body was putting out loads of heat and I couldn't relax. This is at least 6 hours after. Maybe I need longer?

tomcam 8y ago

It turns out that neither of your two solutions has worked for me. In fact, the only thing that came remotely close was giving up caffeine. Sleep is complex.

thanatropism 8y ago

I feel like one out of my every three posts on HN are about the same thing, but this is dangerous advice for people with bipolar disorder, who could be up to 2% of the population.[0] Not long ago there was a stigma about this thing that wasn't just about hiding it, it was about "it won't happen to me, I'm not crazy". But you can be in your mid 40s or early 50s before you have a first episode[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder [1] http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-44462004000700007&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en#fig1 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516...

travisjungroth 8y ago
Go to sleep when you can, wake up early and lift weights is dangerous advice for people with bipolar? It almost seems like you responded to a different comment (pull an all-nighter to reset your cycle).
- thanatropism 8y ago
  It is. Lost sleep is a snowball. It's very easier for bipolars in a manic or even hypomanic state to sleep 5, 4, 2 hours a night and feel well-rested and ready to pull weights. But diagnosed bipolar people know this. This is potentially harmful advice because many people may not know they have a latent bipolar disorder that hasn't manifested yet. In my parent comment I gave a histogram of the age of onset of one's first episode -- it's well possible to be a nondescript software engineer in one's early 40s and literally go crazy. Of course, your proposal also has merits, so people should weigh risks and benefits. Also note family history, history of depression, etc. which are also risk factors. Here's a recent survey of what w know about bipolars and sleep https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ But basically this has been known empirically since old-timey asylums. Hippocrates probably has a hint of this as a factor of the "sacred disease". It's a fact.
  - arandr0x 8y ago
    But the prevalence of bipolar disorder in the population is like, 1% right? So if you have disturbed sleep in that sense (sleep 4-5h for weeks on end, but feel alert and well-rested) it is still quite unlikely to be due to undiagnosed bipolar? (vs needing less sleep naturally, using too much coffee, blue light, whatever)
    - thanatropism 8y ago
      Edit: maybe this communicates it better to some people - bipolar is a tail risk of sleep deprivation / experimentation with sleep schedules / etc. It is low-probability. But not fucking with your sleep is "antifragile". If you agree with Taleb generally, you won't risk it. The downsides are immense. You can easily spend all your savings in one weekend buying soviet filmmaking gear. And that's just the financial side. Bipolar is treatable but doesn't go away. It's just easier to handle. You go to the grave with your pillbox in hand, just in case they buried you alive. The minor disruption of having to take a handful of pills every night, 3 minutes times 365 days times 35 years = 2100 hours. You could probably learn French, German and Italian in that time. I'm refraining from talking about the major downsides. Educate yourself. --- You can also have a latent allergy to peanuts but you always ate small portions. Then someone says "eat only peanuts for a week" and someone says "beware, some allergies are cumulative-exposure, you could be especially sensitive". Then you weigh your risks and benefits. Maybe have someone around to help you if you choke. With bipolar you won't know what's happening right away. It will seem you're having the best period of your life (and you are!). Weigh your risks and benefits. What's being proposed is a lifehack. You could also try to sleep right the way your mother taught you to.

hnick 8y ago

I've had cases where I exercised and I couldn't sleep because I felt like I was burning up. My body was putting out loads of heat and I couldn't relax. This is at least 6 hours after. Maybe I need longer?