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This differs throughout the USA. "Best" schools (<1%) will have what the article is describing (strong student mathematical problem solving communities lead by

This differs throughout the USA. "Best" schools (<1%) will have what the article is describing (strong student mathematical problem solving communities lead by teachers with strong mathematical training). Typically very expensive, either directly through tuition or indirectly because they are public schools but only serve students in very high net worth zip codes. "Very Good" schools (<10%) will include some of the epsilon-delta formalism but might have some curricular problems and a "gifted just means moving through the terrible not-real-math curriculum faster" problem that the article talks about. "Decent" schools will teach how to compute derivative/integrals by rote and maybe talk a bit about the physical intuitions in a very hand-wavy way. Calculus is very much a continuation of Algebra or Trig where you learn some rules and how to pattern match and don't ask too many questions about why. The other half of USA high schools? They don't even offer a Calculus course of any kind [1]. Which... if you don't teach it at all, you can't teach it wrong... As an aside, AP CS has the same problem as the problem identified with AP Calc. AP CS is the epitome of a "Java School" course. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/06/where-calculus-class-isnt-an-option/485987/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/06/where-...

learc83 8y ago
>The other half of USA high schools? They don't even offer a Calculus course of any kind [1] That's a bit misleading. There are many districts where one school serves as a magnet school where anyone interested in taking more advanced classes can go. So yes while it may be true that half of all schools don't offer calculus--far less than half of all students can't readily take calculus.
- applecrazy 8y ago
  Not to mention that many schools allow dual-enrollment, where one can take courses at a local community college to make up for the dearth of courses at a high school.
applecrazy 8y ago
> AP CS is the epitome of a "Java School" course. As a high school student who took AP CS last year, I agree, but in reality the course isn't even about Java. Code is written by hand on the free response portion and Java syntax is mentioned but not really emphasized (things like missing brackets and semicolons are okay on the FRQs). I finished all the questions in about 25 minutes, with over an hour left to twiddle my thumbs. Even questions about algorithmic analysis (in APCS's case, just sorting algorithms) are done without proper big-O notations, which is just plain stupid IMO. For a student that has done CS on their own for years now, APCS feels like the fake, industrialized, watered-down version.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  > watered-down version All of the AP tests are roughly comparable in my opinion. Just not too many high school kids are as overprepared for the tests in chemistry, physics, statistics, economics, etc.
- crshults 8y ago
  I read that "Java School" bit as being in the Joel Spolsky sense. As opposed to a more SICP approach.
- Jach 8y ago
  I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the AP CS AB version's material, specifically whether you think it would have been of any use to you. They killed it some years ago, there's just the A now, so you'll have to search around for an old practice exam to look at. I took it in 2007 since I was ahead of the class enough to continue studying on my own. I don't remember exactly what was covered anymore but I do remember enjoying the studying and writing the exercise programs more, it was worth the lower score. I doubt the A has absorbed anything from it. If you keep up your self-study, expect further disappointment in most undergrad data structures courses. =P
  - applecrazy 8y ago
    AP CS AB looks amazing, it has everything from binary trees to proper data structures, and even Big-O notation![1] It's sad they killed it, it looks so fun. [1]: http://mchs.virtualbeach.com/cs/documents/AP%20Computer%20Science%20AB%20Practice%20Exam.pdf http://mchs.virtualbeach.com/cs/documents/AP%20Computer%20Sc...
User23 8y ago
> Typically very expensive, either directly through tuition or indirectly because they are public schools but only serve students in very high net worth zip codes It's news to me that Stuyvesant considers zip code for admissions. I thought it was a standardized test open to all students in the system.
- redler 8y ago
  It is. Students citywide match in SHSAT score order from the top down.

learc83 8y ago

>The other half of USA high schools? They don't even offer a Calculus course of any kind [1] That's a bit misleading. There are many districts where one school serves as a magnet school where anyone interested in taking more advanced classes can go. So yes while it may be true that half of all schools don't offer calculus--far less than half of all students can't readily take calculus.

applecrazy 8y ago
Not to mention that many schools allow dual-enrollment, where one can take courses at a local community college to make up for the dearth of courses at a high school.

applecrazy 8y ago

> AP CS is the epitome of a "Java School" course. As a high school student who took AP CS last year, I agree, but in reality the course isn't even about Java. Code is written by hand on the free response portion and Java syntax is mentioned but not really emphasized (things like missing brackets and semicolons are okay on the FRQs). I finished all the questions in about 25 minutes, with over an hour left to twiddle my thumbs. Even questions about algorithmic analysis (in APCS's case, just sorting algorithms) are done without proper big-O notations, which is just plain stupid IMO. For a student that has done CS on their own for years now, APCS feels like the fake, industrialized, watered-down version.

jacobolus 8y ago
> watered-down version All of the AP tests are roughly comparable in my opinion. Just not too many high school kids are as overprepared for the tests in chemistry, physics, statistics, economics, etc.
crshults 8y ago
I read that "Java School" bit as being in the Joel Spolsky sense. As opposed to a more SICP approach.
Jach 8y ago
I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the AP CS AB version's material, specifically whether you think it would have been of any use to you. They killed it some years ago, there's just the A now, so you'll have to search around for an old practice exam to look at. I took it in 2007 since I was ahead of the class enough to continue studying on my own. I don't remember exactly what was covered anymore but I do remember enjoying the studying and writing the exercise programs more, it was worth the lower score. I doubt the A has absorbed anything from it. If you keep up your self-study, expect further disappointment in most undergrad data structures courses. =P
- applecrazy 8y ago
  AP CS AB looks amazing, it has everything from binary trees to proper data structures, and even Big-O notation![1] It's sad they killed it, it looks so fun. [1]: http://mchs.virtualbeach.com/cs/documents/AP%20Computer%20Science%20AB%20Practice%20Exam.pdf http://mchs.virtualbeach.com/cs/documents/AP%20Computer%20Sc...

User23 8y ago

> Typically very expensive, either directly through tuition or indirectly because they are public schools but only serve students in very high net worth zip codes It's news to me that Stuyvesant considers zip code for admissions. I thought it was a standardized test open to all students in the system.

redler 8y ago
It is. Students citywide match in SHSAT score order from the top down.