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How confident are my fellow American citizens that the American government doesn't effectively have the same power? I mean if someone showed up at your house in

How confident are my fellow American citizens that the American government doesn't effectively have the same power? I mean if someone showed up at your house in a black Suburban with an official-looking letter that seemed like a court order that you provide them with a backdoor and threatening you with all manner of charges if you go public. How confident are you you could walk away cleanly from that any other way?

kevingadd 8y ago
The American government does theoretically have this power, but it's not like any major player is refusing to do business with Americans yet because the downside to that is massive. It's possible it could come to that eventually. Australia is a target for retribution here because the policy is newer and they're a smaller player.
- mr_toad 8y ago
  > The American government does theoretically have this power So far they haven’t been able to enforce it, at least when challenged. And there are organisations that prohibit the use of US based cloud providers.
- ENGNR 8y ago
  In the USA at least you could take it to the supreme court, Australians don't have a bill of rights
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Saying "it is unfair I can't get away with crime too" is not a defense. And many in fact /are/ already refusing to do so. Witness many privacy laws which explicitly bar storage of citizen data in US jurisdictions - granted some have cynical "so they can access it" motivations. It was why Microsoft of all corporations, one which has been enough of a toady to be caught with NSA in variable names sued hard to demand warrant protection.
BigJono 8y ago
Well I assume the first thing you do if you cop a notice is talk to a lawyer, and if the government's request is illegal, the American lawyer will tell you so. Since this legislation, the Australian lawyer is going to have to tell you to just do it.
m1sta_ 8y ago
Of course they have the same power. Australia is just more open about it because the compulsion power is formalised.
petre 8y ago
The difference is the court order. In Australia, the individuals in the black car could show up with none of that and you'd still have to comply. The Aussie politicians that voted for this are hurting everybody. A mining based economy with less business coming its way because of laws like this one. https://boingboing.net/2017/07/15/malcolm-turnbull-is-an-idiot.html https://boingboing.net/2017/07/15/malcolm-turnbull-is-an-idi...

kevingadd 8y ago

The American government does theoretically have this power, but it's not like any major player is refusing to do business with Americans yet because the downside to that is massive. It's possible it could come to that eventually. Australia is a target for retribution here because the policy is newer and they're a smaller player.

mr_toad 8y ago
> The American government does theoretically have this power So far they haven’t been able to enforce it, at least when challenged. And there are organisations that prohibit the use of US based cloud providers.
ENGNR 8y ago
In the USA at least you could take it to the supreme court, Australians don't have a bill of rights
Nasrudith 8y ago
Saying "it is unfair I can't get away with crime too" is not a defense. And many in fact /are/ already refusing to do so. Witness many privacy laws which explicitly bar storage of citizen data in US jurisdictions - granted some have cynical "so they can access it" motivations. It was why Microsoft of all corporations, one which has been enough of a toady to be caught with NSA in variable names sued hard to demand warrant protection.

BigJono 8y ago

Well I assume the first thing you do if you cop a notice is talk to a lawyer, and if the government's request is illegal, the American lawyer will tell you so. Since this legislation, the Australian lawyer is going to have to tell you to just do it.

m1sta_ 8y ago

Of course they have the same power. Australia is just more open about it because the compulsion power is formalised.

petre 8y ago

The difference is the court order. In Australia, the individuals in the black car could show up with none of that and you'd still have to comply. The Aussie politicians that voted for this are hurting everybody. A mining based economy with less business coming its way because of laws like this one. https://boingboing.net/2017/07/15/malcolm-turnbull-is-an-idiot.html https://boingboing.net/2017/07/15/malcolm-turnbull-is-an-idi...