6 ms·

"you should first identify why you’re going to sleep later than intended, and then create a plan of action which allows you to deal with your specific set of re

"you should first identify why you’re going to sleep later than intended, and then create a plan of action which allows you to deal with your specific set of reasons for procrastinating instead of going to sleep." If only it was this simple.

EndXA 8y ago
I agree that this usually isn’t easy to accomplish, especially if bedtime procrastination is a serious issue for you. However, if you do decide to try and tackle this problem, this approach (identifying why you procrastinate and then tailoring a personal solution) is the way to go. For example: * If you can’t stop browsing social media before going to sleep, install an extension that cuts your access after a certain hour. * If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. * If you don’t feel motivated enough to go to sleep, use motivational techniques such as marking down streaks of days on which you successfully go to sleep on time. Again, I'm not saying that it's easy, but if you’re willing to put in some effort, there are a lot of effective techniques you can use: https://solvingprocrastination.com/how-to-stop-procrastinating/ https://solvingprocrastination.com/how-to-stop-procrastinati...
- rubicon33 8y ago
  > If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. I struggled with this for a long time. I'd decide that I wanted to go to bed earlier, and wake up earlier, but would always fail with the former. I'd get in bed in time, but would never be able to fall asleep. It turns out the solution is really simple... The silver bullet was: Don't focus on bed time. That will come naturally. Go to bed whenever you can. The key is to WAKE UP early, every morning. Regardless of what time you went to bed, WAKE UP at your target hour the next morning. Also - exercise each day. For me, lifting heavy weights and sleeping too little, quickly fixed my "too much energy" at night problem.
  - tomcam 8y ago
    It turns out that neither of your two solutions has worked for me. In fact, the only thing that came remotely close was giving up caffeine. Sleep is complex.
  - thanatropism 8y ago
    I feel like one out of my every three posts on HN are about the same thing, but this is dangerous advice for people with bipolar disorder, who could be up to 2% of the population.[0] Not long ago there was a stigma about this thing that wasn't just about hiding it, it was about "it won't happen to me, I'm not crazy". But you can be in your mid 40s or early 50s before you have a first episode[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder [1] http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-44462004000700007&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en#fig1 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516...
    - travisjungroth 8y ago
      Go to sleep when you can, wake up early and lift weights is dangerous advice for people with bipolar? It almost seems like you responded to a different comment (pull an all-nighter to reset your cycle).
      - thanatropism 8y ago
        It is. Lost sleep is a snowball. It's very easier for bipolars in a manic or even hypomanic state to sleep 5, 4, 2 hours a night and feel well-rested and ready to pull weights. But diagnosed bipolar people know this. This is potentially harmful advice because many people may not know they have a latent bipolar disorder that hasn't manifested yet. In my parent comment I gave a histogram of the age of onset of one's first episode -- it's well possible to be a nondescript software engineer in one's early 40s and literally go crazy. Of course, your proposal also has merits, so people should weigh risks and benefits. Also note family history, history of depression, etc. which are also risk factors. Here's a recent survey of what w know about bipolars and sleep https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ But basically this has been known empirically since old-timey asylums. Hippocrates probably has a hint of this as a factor of the "sacred disease". It's a fact.
graeme 8y ago
Honestly, after years of sleep issues, it worked out more or less like that. The trick is that the "why" can be many layers deep. In my case, lighting turned out to be a big issue. All of the following proved necessary: * Blackout curtains that made my room darker at night * But, they were curtains. So, they were not so dark that no light came in in the morning. This helped me wake up * Better interior lighting for night. I bought some "bedtime bulbs" after I saw them on HN, and installed them in my lamps. They're very warm, and I feel sleepier * A red light in the lamp by my bed for reading * Morning light. First thing I do upon waking is walk outside in the light, and try to get in the sun. Even in Canadian winter * Morning light, part 2. I use a wakeup light, after reading about the one Sam Altman used here: http://blog.samaltman.com/productivity http://blog.samaltman.com/productivity * I use "reduce white point" on my phone past seven or so. It's set fairly high * I make a point of getting ready for bed, and avoiding screens. So last hour is just getting stuff wrapped up for the day, hanging out, etc * Sleep tracking. I use an apple watch, and auto sleep. I more or less centre everything around getting as much as I can. It's massively improved everything else in my life. This tracking is also how I measured the effectiveness of the changes above. All of the above basically reset the circadian rhythm. That was why I kept going to sleep later than intended. Again, I had years of what seemed like onset insomnia. Now, I more or less don't. I still take longer to fall asleep than my girlfriend does, but I regularly am asleep before 11, rather than 1-2 am. And I feel much happier for it. I also use .3 msg of melatonin, around 5-6 pm, following a tip here about dosing. (Apparently it's either that, or a larger amount right before bed) Just now, I noticed I felt awake and realized I had left the overhead lights on. While typing this comment I turned them off, turning on the lamps with warm lights, and feel sleepier. I suspect that's not quite how the original article meant it, but looking at my process in hindsight, it was fairly simple. Just basically continual assessment focussed on "why". Why was I not sleeping? And what do experts recommend for circadian rhythm.
p1necone 8y ago
The decision for me is basically "right now I'm playing video games/working on passion project, if I go to sleep I have to stop that, be unconscious for a while, and then go to work and not play video games/work on passion project". Staying up later always wins.
arandr0x 8y ago
Honestly for me it's mood dependent. Feel good during the day -> enjoy staying up literally pacing till 2AM. Feel like an unmotivated lump that can't do anything -> sweet, sweet oblivion. I guess that's related to what another commenter said, that essentially we stay up because it's more fun than the alternative. One thing that works for me as a result is focusing on dreams or stories I tell myself at bedtime to generate fun dreams. Another thing is give myself a goal where bedtime is somehow the reward (I will fold all the laundry and bake cookies, but then I have earned going to sleep) and it will make me feel like going to sleep is desirable even if in actuality laundry and cookies sounded much better.
- alexozer 8y ago
  Interesting, it's the opposite for me. If I'm feeling rotten, unmotivated, unproductive, and guilty about it, I'll tend to stay up later because my "self-discipline for the day" will feel eroded and I'll want to procrastinate the arrival of the next day where I'll be faced with dealing with the thing I put off. I can only usually make myself go to bed early if I feel like I'm already in a "disciplined state" for the day.

EndXA 8y ago

I agree that this usually isn’t easy to accomplish, especially if bedtime procrastination is a serious issue for you. However, if you do decide to try and tackle this problem, this approach (identifying why you procrastinate and then tailoring a personal solution) is the way to go. For example: * If you can’t stop browsing social media before going to sleep, install an extension that cuts your access after a certain hour. * If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. * If you don’t feel motivated enough to go to sleep, use motivational techniques such as marking down streaks of days on which you successfully go to sleep on time. Again, I'm not saying that it's easy, but if you’re willing to put in some effort, there are a lot of effective techniques you can use: https://solvingprocrastination.com/how-to-stop-procrastinating/ https://solvingprocrastination.com/how-to-stop-procrastinati...

rubicon33 8y ago
> If you feel too energetic to sleep, reduce caffeine intake/blue light exposure in the hours before bedtime. I struggled with this for a long time. I'd decide that I wanted to go to bed earlier, and wake up earlier, but would always fail with the former. I'd get in bed in time, but would never be able to fall asleep. It turns out the solution is really simple... The silver bullet was: Don't focus on bed time. That will come naturally. Go to bed whenever you can. The key is to WAKE UP early, every morning. Regardless of what time you went to bed, WAKE UP at your target hour the next morning. Also - exercise each day. For me, lifting heavy weights and sleeping too little, quickly fixed my "too much energy" at night problem.
- tomcam 8y ago
  It turns out that neither of your two solutions has worked for me. In fact, the only thing that came remotely close was giving up caffeine. Sleep is complex.
- thanatropism 8y ago
  I feel like one out of my every three posts on HN are about the same thing, but this is dangerous advice for people with bipolar disorder, who could be up to 2% of the population.[0] Not long ago there was a stigma about this thing that wasn't just about hiding it, it was about "it won't happen to me, I'm not crazy". But you can be in your mid 40s or early 50s before you have a first episode[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder [1] http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-44462004000700007&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en#fig1 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516...
  - travisjungroth 8y ago
    Go to sleep when you can, wake up early and lift weights is dangerous advice for people with bipolar? It almost seems like you responded to a different comment (pull an all-nighter to reset your cycle).
    - thanatropism 8y ago
      It is. Lost sleep is a snowball. It's very easier for bipolars in a manic or even hypomanic state to sleep 5, 4, 2 hours a night and feel well-rested and ready to pull weights. But diagnosed bipolar people know this. This is potentially harmful advice because many people may not know they have a latent bipolar disorder that hasn't manifested yet. In my parent comment I gave a histogram of the age of onset of one's first episode -- it's well possible to be a nondescript software engineer in one's early 40s and literally go crazy. Of course, your proposal also has merits, so people should weigh risks and benefits. Also note family history, history of depression, etc. which are also risk factors. Here's a recent survey of what w know about bipolars and sleep https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935164/ But basically this has been known empirically since old-timey asylums. Hippocrates probably has a hint of this as a factor of the "sacred disease". It's a fact.

graeme 8y ago

Honestly, after years of sleep issues, it worked out more or less like that. The trick is that the "why" can be many layers deep. In my case, lighting turned out to be a big issue. All of the following proved necessary: * Blackout curtains that made my room darker at night * But, they were curtains. So, they were not so dark that no light came in in the morning. This helped me wake up * Better interior lighting for night. I bought some "bedtime bulbs" after I saw them on HN, and installed them in my lamps. They're very warm, and I feel sleepier * A red light in the lamp by my bed for reading * Morning light. First thing I do upon waking is walk outside in the light, and try to get in the sun. Even in Canadian winter * Morning light, part 2. I use a wakeup light, after reading about the one Sam Altman used here: http://blog.samaltman.com/productivity http://blog.samaltman.com/productivity * I use "reduce white point" on my phone past seven or so. It's set fairly high * I make a point of getting ready for bed, and avoiding screens. So last hour is just getting stuff wrapped up for the day, hanging out, etc * Sleep tracking. I use an apple watch, and auto sleep. I more or less centre everything around getting as much as I can. It's massively improved everything else in my life. This tracking is also how I measured the effectiveness of the changes above. All of the above basically reset the circadian rhythm. That was why I kept going to sleep later than intended. Again, I had years of what seemed like onset insomnia. Now, I more or less don't. I still take longer to fall asleep than my girlfriend does, but I regularly am asleep before 11, rather than 1-2 am. And I feel much happier for it. I also use .3 msg of melatonin, around 5-6 pm, following a tip here about dosing. (Apparently it's either that, or a larger amount right before bed) Just now, I noticed I felt awake and realized I had left the overhead lights on. While typing this comment I turned them off, turning on the lamps with warm lights, and feel sleepier. I suspect that's not quite how the original article meant it, but looking at my process in hindsight, it was fairly simple. Just basically continual assessment focussed on "why". Why was I not sleeping? And what do experts recommend for circadian rhythm.

p1necone 8y ago

The decision for me is basically "right now I'm playing video games/working on passion project, if I go to sleep I have to stop that, be unconscious for a while, and then go to work and not play video games/work on passion project". Staying up later always wins.

arandr0x 8y ago

Honestly for me it's mood dependent. Feel good during the day -> enjoy staying up literally pacing till 2AM. Feel like an unmotivated lump that can't do anything -> sweet, sweet oblivion. I guess that's related to what another commenter said, that essentially we stay up because it's more fun than the alternative. One thing that works for me as a result is focusing on dreams or stories I tell myself at bedtime to generate fun dreams. Another thing is give myself a goal where bedtime is somehow the reward (I will fold all the laundry and bake cookies, but then I have earned going to sleep) and it will make me feel like going to sleep is desirable even if in actuality laundry and cookies sounded much better.

alexozer 8y ago
Interesting, it's the opposite for me. If I'm feeling rotten, unmotivated, unproductive, and guilty about it, I'll tend to stay up later because my "self-discipline for the day" will feel eroded and I'll want to procrastinate the arrival of the next day where I'll be faced with dealing with the thing I put off. I can only usually make myself go to bed early if I feel like I'm already in a "disciplined state" for the day.