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My question is this: Are they also going to ban other ethno nationalist movements? Last I checked, the Hebrew Israelites (a black nationalist and anti semitic
by JPKab 8y ago
My question is this:
Are they also going to ban other ethno nationalist movements? Last I checked, the Hebrew Israelites (a black nationalist and anti semitic group) are on FB. They believe that the people who currently identify as Jews are evil impostors.
- dragonwriter 8y agoAnd the last time there was a “Hebrew Israelite”-motivated mass killing was... when, exactly?
- kortilla 8y agoIrrelevant? Violent hate speech doesn’t have to result in a mass killing before you ban it.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> Violent hate speech doesn’t have to result in a mass killing before you ban it. I would say that, where there is debate over the level of danger and need to take action to restrain hate speech, whether or not that particular kind of hate speech is motivating violent acts and on what scale is a quite legitimate factor to consider.
- chrischen 8y agoDunno about that one but the last anti-Jewish mass killing wasn't that long ago.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> the last anti-Jewish mass killing wasn't that long ago. Indeed. And it was motivated by white nationalism, not the Hebrew Israelite movement, so it's kind of a weird thing to bring up if you are trying to make the case that deplatforming the latter has as strong a case as the former.
- chrischen 8y agoRacism is racism. Is there a difference?
- jniedrauer 8y agoSome racists are more kill-y than others.
- chillacy 8y agoNot for Deontologists, but I'm a Consequentialist myself.
- hourislate 8y agoWhat about Communism/Marxism? Any mass killings there?
- drefanzor 8y agolol https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dc27c120e671 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
- StellarTabi 8y agoDang, communists killed 100 billion people, let's keep repeating that when ever people ask for affordable healthcare or economic democracy. Also important is that we never talk about the mass incarceration of black people, native American genocide, or Bengal famines.
- wyclif 8y agoSince when was triggering "mass killing" the standard for censorship on the internet?
- geofft 8y agoAt least since Facebook's current community standards were written, probably earlier: We aim to prevent potential real-world harm that may be related to content on Facebook. [...] We remove content, disable accounts, and work with law enforcement when we believe there is a genuine risk of physical harm or direct threats to public safety. In an effort to prevent and disrupt real-world harm, we do not allow any organizations or individuals that proclaim a violent mission or are engaged in violence, from having a presence on Facebook. This includes organizations or individuals involved in the following: - Terrorist activity - Organized hate - Mass or serial murder - Human trafficking - Organized violence or criminal activity We also remove content that expresses support or praise for groups, leaders, or individuals involved in these activities. That seems like a pretty clear statement that people who are engaged in / advocating for / recruiting for groups that engage in mass killing will be censored. It would surprise me if Facebook were the first internet platform with rules like this.
- throwaway66323 8y agoHappens all the time - really hard to pin down without remembering exact details as Google does a surprisingly good job of filtering them out. Not sure why. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fresno_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fresno_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaika_Griffin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaika_Griffin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastings_Arthur_Wise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastings_Arthur_Wise
- JPKab 8y agoThe man who shot the 9 cops in Dallas had a lot of their literature.
- noobermin 8y agoThat isn't true.
- pj_mukh 8y agoAre any of them communicating and chest-beating to organize violent acts? I realize its tough to tell with some of these groups. I think Facebook in this situation is looking at net-effects (esp given the timing of it all). Note German, Dutch and French Heritage celebration isn't banned. Neither is Palestinian or Syrian. But Hezbollah is banned [1], not sure why White Nationalists shouldn't be. [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/facebook-twitter-pages-of-hezbollah-shuttered/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/facebook-twitter-pages-of-hezb...
- leereeves 8y agoEven the extremely left-wing SPLC has warned about the Return of the Violent Black Nationalist. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/return-violent-black-nationalist https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/...
- cannedslime 8y agoYes, yes they are. Plenty of videos on YT of black israelites attacking innocent bystanders, yelling deaththreats and racial slurs etc.
- exelius 8y agoI wonder about this too — the black Israelites are a fringe group, but what worries me are ethno/religio-nationalist groups that hold political power in the nation they reside in. Lots of examples in the Middle East and Africa; and some would say in the US as well (and the “some would say” is kind of the point here). The more I think about these kinds of questions, the more inevitable the total Balkanization of the Internet feels. Countries are finally waking up to the fact that “individual privacy == national security” but they all have their own notions of how much privacy the individual is afforded and from whom.
- vkou 8y ago"White" isn't an ethnicity. It's not a culture. Irish, German, Roma, Italian, Russian, are all ethnicities. All of them have particularly Irish, German, Roma, etc cultures. But there is no shared "White" culture. White nationalism defines itself not by a shared ethnicity or culture, but by making it crystal-clear who it excludes. A white nationalist can't tell you what being white actually means - but he can tell you exactly who isn't.
- leereeves 8y agoBy that definition, "Black" and "Hispanic" and "Asian" aren't ethnicities or cultures either. Each of those groups have numerous distinct and often warring subgroups. But if Hispanic can be an ethnicity, so can European, AKA "white".
- chillacy 8y agoThis is purely an argument of semantics but a more technical term is the US classification of race. You have Asian covering disparate people from india, east asia, and southeast asia with completely different cultures and economic states. Relatedly, there's African-american which covers both black americans and black africans, but not people don't really consider white South Africans to be African-American. And then we get to the white americans which in modern times covers most europeans, but at various points of history didn't cover Italians, Germans, and Irish.
- leereeves 8y agoAfrican-American not only excludes the descendants of immigrants like white South Africans, but also Arabic North Africans whose ancestors have lived in Africa for as long as we have historical records. It's a terrible misnomer.
- StevePerkins 8y agoThis is nonsense. Well meaning nonsense perhaps, but nonsense nevertheless. If some measure of "white culture" does not exist, then what is it that people are code switching to in the workplace? What is it that comedians often make fun of, and why do audiences (including white members) laugh in recognition?
- mherdeg 8y ago> Are they also going to ban other ethno nationalist movements? Yes, at least sometimes? I think they did ban the collection of accounts in Myanmar which advocated for genocide of the Rohingya, but only a few years after the genocide was underway, so yes https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebook-genocide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo... .
- ArtDev 8y agoWell, "white" isn't a heritage at all unlike Irish, English, German, Scandinavian.. etc.
- paulddraper 8y agoIt was odd they are only going after white nationalism. I have the same question. What about all the other nationalist movements?
- laughinghan 8y ago> It was odd they are only going after white nationalism. They aren't. They went after ISIS years ago, and they've recently been trying to go after accounts contributing to the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar, as a sibling comment noted and provided a link for. If Hebrew Israelites start driving cars into crowds or shooting up churches and synagogues, I'd hope Facebook goes after them, too.
- paulddraper 8y agoAs I understand it though, Facebook is going after while nationalist groups that don't drive into crowds and shoot up churches. (Also, those are odd examples...AFAIK each time it was single person operating alone.)
- laughinghan 8y agoIs it your understanding that it's pure coincidence that an avowed white supremacist chose to drive 100 miles to Charlottesville and then into a crowd, by happenstance on the same day in the same city as the day of direct action by those white nationalist groups? It is your understanding that no one else in the world contributed to the Tree of Life shooter's belief that murdering Jewish people was necessary and important? He, operating alone, picked a synagogue purely by chance?
- paulddraper 8y ago? > by happenstance It was deliberate choice. > picked a synagogue purely by chance Also deliberate. But though the deliberate choice of targets is clear, I'm not advocating banning Congregate Charlottesville or closing synagogues. Right to assembly is a basic human right.
- ratling 8y agoThe rabbit hole of whataboutism goes nowhere. These people have been shooting up places of worship and running people over with their cars, all the while their supporters cheer them on. They can get right the fuck out. Black Israelites start doing the same then by all means do the same to them.