6 ms·

"Technology companies often choose to gender technology believing it will make people more comfortable adopting it. Unfortunately this reinforces a binary perc

"Technology companies often choose to gender technology believing it will make people more comfortable adopting it. Unfortunately this reinforces a binary perception of gender, and perpetuates stereotypes that many have fought hard to progress. As society continues to break down the gender binary, recognising those who neither identify as male nor female, the technology we create should follow. Q is an example of what we hope the future holds; a future of ideas, inclusion, positions and diverse representation in technology."

maccio92 8y ago
Ahh, so delusion
monksy 8y ago
> stereotypes that many have fought hard to progress What stereotypes would this help to alleviate? > the technology we create should follow. Why it's a service that communications via artificial audio. Why is it important that you can't have a male or a female voice? People still exist, the voices in question don't have a physical appearance.
- jolmg 8y ago
  > What stereotypes would this help to alleviate? Though I don't feel strongly either way, my guess is that, since people usually leave software on defaults and female voices are typically chosen for voice assistants, the stereotype might be of women being servants.
  - diss 8y ago
    That seems to me like a far reaching problem to solve. I don't believe anyone actually thinks like that, I think this hypothetical issue exists in the minds of people trying to solve it.
    - jolmg 8y ago
      > I don't believe anyone actually thinks like that You'd be surprised. The world is vast and gender roles are traditional in many cultures.
      - diss 8y ago
        It's one thing to subscribe to gender roles traditional to your culture, but a totally different thing to base your attitude towards women on the perceived gender of a virtual assistant on your phone. You can kind of make a logical link if you try, but I don't believe that's how it plays out in reality. It'll possibly be more relevant if/when these virtual assistants become indistinguishable from humans and perhaps have a physical form.
        jolmg 8y ago
        > but a totally different thing to base your attitude towards women on the perceived gender of a virtual assistant on your phone. Well, if you say "base", then yeah that's very unlikely. However, their attitude doesn't need to be based on that, it could simply be supported by it, even a little bit. If all your life you've seen women in a "serving" sort of role, like seeing only female nurses serving your medicine, female waitresses serving your food, female caretakers serving your kids and elders, female maids serving your house needs, and even your female-sounding phone serving your electronic needs, then in aggregate and in time that sets an idea, even a subconscious one, that contributes to your understanding of how the world works. I don't see this genderless voice as being the solution to a problem. I see it as them just trying to do their small part in a change they want to see.
    - claudiawerner 8y ago
      I'd say there's a big difference between someone consciously thinking in a certain way, and building associations, many of which they don't notice. In fact, it's been one of the principal aims of psychology, sociology and economics to uncover how people act on such opinions without knowing they actually hold them.
  - evilotto 8y ago
    "Female voices do however appear to have an advantage in that they can portray a greater range of urgencies because of their usually higher pitch and pitch range. An experiment is reported showing that knowledge about the sex of a speaker has no effect on judgements of perceived urgency, with acoustic variables accounting for such differences." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14965452 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14965452
overgard 8y ago
If technology is needed to create this kind of voice -- IE it's not really natural, and as others have suggested it creates an uncanny valley of voice that confuses people, wouldn't that actually perpetuate the idea that there is a gender binary? (I don't have a dog in this fight, I just don't see that this accomplishes what you want it to)
- diss 8y ago
  Yes. You find contradictions all through this kind of belief system if you analyse it logically, because it's driven first and foremost by how people feel (or how people think others might feel).
  - cazum 8y ago
    The analysis of the social construction of gender is not derived from "feelings." This technology is actually quite inconsistent with gender studies, which is why I find it quite baffling. Gender as an identity would imply that a female could have a deep gravelly voice and that a man could also have a higher pitched softer voice, as ones gender identity need not be dictated by their born sex or physical attributes. This is quite fundamental to gender studies, making this tech not just useless, but completely counter intuitive to that project.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
jriot 8y ago
Society still views gender as binary.
rootusrootus 8y ago
This sounds incredibly sad and dystopian. And silly, too. Regardless of what is going on inside a person's head (which we can choose to respect, absolutely), biologically there is definitely just two genders. You can identify however you like, modify if you wish, but in the end your body will be one or the other, right along with your voice.
- daeken 8y ago
  Gender is not a biological concept, period; that's sex. Your body is also distinctly not "one or the other", given that a large portion of the world is born with one of several intersex conditions.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    I figured someone would try to bring up malfunctions. No, DNA is pretty clear on the whole male/female thing. Malfunctions are just that. Redefining gender is an uphill battle. I won't wish you good luck in doing that, I'd prefer coming up with a new term for this goal.
    - crummy 8y ago
      Is DNA pretty clear on the whole male/female thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
    - falcor84 8y ago
      There is no such thing as a malfunction in genetics - every single biological property is the result of some imperfect copy some time in the past.
  - diss 8y ago
    > a large portion of the world is born with one of several intersex conditions No, a very very small portion. Gender doesn't vary independently from sex, you'd be hard pressed to find a stronger correlation. It's misleading to consider them as totally separate things.
RivieraKid 8y ago
> As society continues to break down the gender binary, recognising those who neither identify as male nor female, the technology we create should follow. People who neither identify as male nor female AND want to listen to a gender-neutral voice seems like a very niche market.
john_moscow 8y ago
Am I the only person who thinks that the text above is some elaborate kind of trolling?
carnagii 8y ago
it is an interesting idea. technology of course has no gender, and any synthesized speech can only express an arbitrary simulation of gender, so making this explicit reveals the underlying reality that all technological simulations of gender are by definition constructed. a piece of art that demonstrates the construction of gender probably will not catch on well as a product though.
burfog 8y ago
I instantly recognized the voice as M2F, before it even confirmed that by the description of how it was created. If I had a device with this voice, I would feel a strong urge to reenact the final printer scene from the movie Office Space. Companies want their voice-enabled products to be purchased. Revulsion doesn't help.

maccio92 8y ago

Ahh, so delusion

monksy 8y ago

> stereotypes that many have fought hard to progress What stereotypes would this help to alleviate? > the technology we create should follow. Why it's a service that communications via artificial audio. Why is it important that you can't have a male or a female voice? People still exist, the voices in question don't have a physical appearance.

jolmg 8y ago
> What stereotypes would this help to alleviate? Though I don't feel strongly either way, my guess is that, since people usually leave software on defaults and female voices are typically chosen for voice assistants, the stereotype might be of women being servants.
- diss 8y ago
  That seems to me like a far reaching problem to solve. I don't believe anyone actually thinks like that, I think this hypothetical issue exists in the minds of people trying to solve it.
  - jolmg 8y ago
    > I don't believe anyone actually thinks like that You'd be surprised. The world is vast and gender roles are traditional in many cultures.
    - diss 8y ago
      It's one thing to subscribe to gender roles traditional to your culture, but a totally different thing to base your attitude towards women on the perceived gender of a virtual assistant on your phone. You can kind of make a logical link if you try, but I don't believe that's how it plays out in reality. It'll possibly be more relevant if/when these virtual assistants become indistinguishable from humans and perhaps have a physical form.
      - jolmg 8y ago
        > but a totally different thing to base your attitude towards women on the perceived gender of a virtual assistant on your phone. Well, if you say "base", then yeah that's very unlikely. However, their attitude doesn't need to be based on that, it could simply be supported by it, even a little bit. If all your life you've seen women in a "serving" sort of role, like seeing only female nurses serving your medicine, female waitresses serving your food, female caretakers serving your kids and elders, female maids serving your house needs, and even your female-sounding phone serving your electronic needs, then in aggregate and in time that sets an idea, even a subconscious one, that contributes to your understanding of how the world works. I don't see this genderless voice as being the solution to a problem. I see it as them just trying to do their small part in a change they want to see.
  - claudiawerner 8y ago
    I'd say there's a big difference between someone consciously thinking in a certain way, and building associations, many of which they don't notice. In fact, it's been one of the principal aims of psychology, sociology and economics to uncover how people act on such opinions without knowing they actually hold them.
- evilotto 8y ago
  "Female voices do however appear to have an advantage in that they can portray a greater range of urgencies because of their usually higher pitch and pitch range. An experiment is reported showing that knowledge about the sex of a speaker has no effect on judgements of perceived urgency, with acoustic variables accounting for such differences." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14965452 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14965452

overgard 8y ago

If technology is needed to create this kind of voice -- IE it's not really natural, and as others have suggested it creates an uncanny valley of voice that confuses people, wouldn't that actually perpetuate the idea that there is a gender binary? (I don't have a dog in this fight, I just don't see that this accomplishes what you want it to)

diss 8y ago
Yes. You find contradictions all through this kind of belief system if you analyse it logically, because it's driven first and foremost by how people feel (or how people think others might feel).
- cazum 8y ago
  The analysis of the social construction of gender is not derived from "feelings." This technology is actually quite inconsistent with gender studies, which is why I find it quite baffling. Gender as an identity would imply that a female could have a deep gravelly voice and that a man could also have a higher pitched softer voice, as ones gender identity need not be dictated by their born sex or physical attributes. This is quite fundamental to gender studies, making this tech not just useless, but completely counter intuitive to that project.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

jriot 8y ago

Society still views gender as binary.

rootusrootus 8y ago

This sounds incredibly sad and dystopian. And silly, too. Regardless of what is going on inside a person's head (which we can choose to respect, absolutely), biologically there is definitely just two genders. You can identify however you like, modify if you wish, but in the end your body will be one or the other, right along with your voice.

daeken 8y ago
Gender is not a biological concept, period; that's sex. Your body is also distinctly not "one or the other", given that a large portion of the world is born with one of several intersex conditions.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  I figured someone would try to bring up malfunctions. No, DNA is pretty clear on the whole male/female thing. Malfunctions are just that. Redefining gender is an uphill battle. I won't wish you good luck in doing that, I'd prefer coming up with a new term for this goal.
  - crummy 8y ago
    Is DNA pretty clear on the whole male/female thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
  - falcor84 8y ago
    There is no such thing as a malfunction in genetics - every single biological property is the result of some imperfect copy some time in the past.
- diss 8y ago
  > a large portion of the world is born with one of several intersex conditions No, a very very small portion. Gender doesn't vary independently from sex, you'd be hard pressed to find a stronger correlation. It's misleading to consider them as totally separate things.

RivieraKid 8y ago

> As society continues to break down the gender binary, recognising those who neither identify as male nor female, the technology we create should follow. People who neither identify as male nor female AND want to listen to a gender-neutral voice seems like a very niche market.

john_moscow 8y ago

Am I the only person who thinks that the text above is some elaborate kind of trolling?

carnagii 8y ago

it is an interesting idea. technology of course has no gender, and any synthesized speech can only express an arbitrary simulation of gender, so making this explicit reveals the underlying reality that all technological simulations of gender are by definition constructed. a piece of art that demonstrates the construction of gender probably will not catch on well as a product though.

burfog 8y ago

I instantly recognized the voice as M2F, before it even confirmed that by the description of how it was created. If I had a device with this voice, I would feel a strong urge to reenact the final printer scene from the movie Office Space. Companies want their voice-enabled products to be purchased. Revulsion doesn't help.