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What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for espionage....?

What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for espionage....???

mrbonner 8y ago
They could use the info collected from users who happening to have state secrets (def-cons, state employees, etc...). The bottom line is that the Chinese could use this fact to blackmail those users to cough up what they know in exchange for forceful "coming out of a closet" announcement.
- cl0ckt0wer 8y ago
  Lots of clueless closeted politicians use it.
- yorwba 8y ago
  Other dating apps also allow users to state their sexual preferences, so although Grindr might have a higher density of potential blackmail material, they're not even guaranteed to have the largest collection. There must be something else that sets them apart from others. (Maybe they were the first to be acquired by a Chinese company?)
  - Macross8299 8y ago
    My guess is the density of potential blackmail material _is_ what sets it apart from the others -- the very act of being registered on Grindr is almost a smoking gun for being non-heterosexual if you wanted to out somebody. Much better odds of finding a target that matches with your other info and much more "damning" evidence to scare people with. edit: Furthermore, what other Chinese company owns a dating site used frequently by westerners?
    - zachr 8y ago
      Unique with Grindr is that it's a safe bet that the majority of users have sent and received explicit photos. So if you want to find a congressman's dick pics that his wife doesn't know he's been sending to men..... grindr is probably a good place to do it.
    - yorwba 8y ago
      For evidence, you'd probably produce screenshots of their profile and threaten to send them to people who know the blackmail victim. Now maybe having the Grindr logo on there is a bit scarier, but any other dating site with a profile listing "taboo" interests should work just as well. Regarding your edit: I didn't mean that there was another Chinese company owning a dating site used by Westerners, but that it would explain what made Grindr special if there weren't another such company.
- devy 8y ago
  The first line of the article reads: ... Chinese gaming company Beijing Kunlun Tech Co Ltd is seeking to sell Grindr LLC, the popular gay dating app it has owned since 2016. So what's the point here? The Chinese gaming company has already owned it for over 2 years and have access to the data already.
  - killjoywashere 8y ago
    Right, they got what they wanted out of it, so now they are just selling the trash. The fact that they're selling, coupled with the basis for the decision to sell, will probably crater the price. And I suspect this will have an adverse effect on Grindr's monthly-user count, which won't help that sale price. Wouldn't be surprised if Grindr folds. And that will have a deterrent effect on other companies interested in Chinese money. Because for the Chinese government, it ain't about the money.
    - KaoruAoiShiho 8y ago
      They don't want to sell... they're only forced to sell by the US government.
danhak 8y ago
Most likely because Grindr is primarily used for casual / anonymous same-sex encounters. Its users may be more susceptible to blackmail / extortion. There are many users of the app who are not open about their lifestyle (“DL”)
duskwuff 8y ago
Grindr is specifically targeted at the male homosexual and MSM audience. The information that users share about themselves on Grindr is much more likely to be sensitive than a traditional dating site.
CharlesColeman 8y ago
> What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for espionage....??? select opm.name, opm.address from opm_security_clearance_files opm join grindr_users grinder where grinder.phone_number = opm.phone_number and opm.clearance in ('SECRET', 'TOP SECRET', 'SCI'); If any of those people are in the closet, they could be susceptible to blackmail.
- Macross8299 8y ago
  +1 Simple explanation that likely explains the security panel's reasoning behind their statements. Also explains why a phone number as an identity token is a horrible idea.
- yorwba 8y ago
  Replace grindr by some_other_site where some_other_site.orientation != 'straight' or some_other_site.fetish in (...) and it works out to the same result, no?
  - CharlesColeman 8y ago
    Yeah, definitely. I think it's arguable the same rational could even apply to a dating site for straight people. It would take a little more work and probably be less fruitful overall, but an adversary's intelligence agency could use it identify straight people (with security clearances) who may be trying to cheat on their spouses or whose marriage is disintegrating. Both of those situations could open someone up to manipulation (a honey trap [1], for instance). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_honeypots,_and_recruitment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_hon...
    - azinman2 8y ago
      Knowing someone is gay is a classic blackmail situation, particularly within the gov world. Grindr is very sexually charged, so you get the most extreme sensitive bits here, combined with high profile people that are closeted and don’t want this information leaked. Not the same situation.

What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for espionage....???

mrbonner 8y ago

They could use the info collected from users who happening to have state secrets (def-cons, state employees, etc...). The bottom line is that the Chinese could use this fact to blackmail those users to cough up what they know in exchange for forceful "coming out of a closet" announcement.

cl0ckt0wer 8y ago
Lots of clueless closeted politicians use it.
yorwba 8y ago
Other dating apps also allow users to state their sexual preferences, so although Grindr might have a higher density of potential blackmail material, they're not even guaranteed to have the largest collection. There must be something else that sets them apart from others. (Maybe they were the first to be acquired by a Chinese company?)
- Macross8299 8y ago
  My guess is the density of potential blackmail material _is_ what sets it apart from the others -- the very act of being registered on Grindr is almost a smoking gun for being non-heterosexual if you wanted to out somebody. Much better odds of finding a target that matches with your other info and much more "damning" evidence to scare people with. edit: Furthermore, what other Chinese company owns a dating site used frequently by westerners?
  - zachr 8y ago
    Unique with Grindr is that it's a safe bet that the majority of users have sent and received explicit photos. So if you want to find a congressman's dick pics that his wife doesn't know he's been sending to men..... grindr is probably a good place to do it.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    For evidence, you'd probably produce screenshots of their profile and threaten to send them to people who know the blackmail victim. Now maybe having the Grindr logo on there is a bit scarier, but any other dating site with a profile listing "taboo" interests should work just as well. Regarding your edit: I didn't mean that there was another Chinese company owning a dating site used by Westerners, but that it would explain what made Grindr special if there weren't another such company.
devy 8y ago
The first line of the article reads: ... Chinese gaming company Beijing Kunlun Tech Co Ltd is seeking to sell Grindr LLC, the popular gay dating app it has owned since 2016. So what's the point here? The Chinese gaming company has already owned it for over 2 years and have access to the data already.
- killjoywashere 8y ago
  Right, they got what they wanted out of it, so now they are just selling the trash. The fact that they're selling, coupled with the basis for the decision to sell, will probably crater the price. And I suspect this will have an adverse effect on Grindr's monthly-user count, which won't help that sale price. Wouldn't be surprised if Grindr folds. And that will have a deterrent effect on other companies interested in Chinese money. Because for the Chinese government, it ain't about the money.
  - KaoruAoiShiho 8y ago
    They don't want to sell... they're only forced to sell by the US government.

danhak 8y ago

Most likely because Grindr is primarily used for casual / anonymous same-sex encounters. Its users may be more susceptible to blackmail / extortion. There are many users of the app who are not open about their lifestyle (“DL”)

duskwuff 8y ago

Grindr is specifically targeted at the male homosexual and MSM audience. The information that users share about themselves on Grindr is much more likely to be sensitive than a traditional dating site.

CharlesColeman 8y ago

> What makes Grindr special in this regard ? I’m sure there are other dating or social apps out there that also could be foreign owned and used for espionage....??? select opm.name, opm.address from opm_security_clearance_files opm join grindr_users grinder where grinder.phone_number = opm.phone_number and opm.clearance in ('SECRET', 'TOP SECRET', 'SCI'); If any of those people are in the closet, they could be susceptible to blackmail.

Macross8299 8y ago
+1 Simple explanation that likely explains the security panel's reasoning behind their statements. Also explains why a phone number as an identity token is a horrible idea.
yorwba 8y ago
Replace grindr by some_other_site where some_other_site.orientation != 'straight' or some_other_site.fetish in (...) and it works out to the same result, no?
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  Yeah, definitely. I think it's arguable the same rational could even apply to a dating site for straight people. It would take a little more work and probably be less fruitful overall, but an adversary's intelligence agency could use it identify straight people (with security clearances) who may be trying to cheat on their spouses or whose marriage is disintegrating. Both of those situations could open someone up to manipulation (a honey trap [1], for instance). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_honeypots,_and_recruitment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_of_spies#Love,_hon...
  - azinman2 8y ago
    Knowing someone is gay is a classic blackmail situation, particularly within the gov world. Grindr is very sexually charged, so you get the most extreme sensitive bits here, combined with high profile people that are closeted and don’t want this information leaked. Not the same situation.