7 ms·

MIDI Maze

95 points by lelf 8y ago

msla 8y ago
Handheld deathmatch! > A Game Boy version was developed by the original developers, Xanth Software F/X, and published in 1991 by Bulletproof Software, under the title Faceball 2000. [snip] It is notable for being the only Game Boy game to support 16 simultaneous players. It was thought it did so by connecting multiple copies of the Four Player Adapter to one another so that each additional adapter added another two players up to the maximum - thus seven such adapters would have been needed for a 16 player experience. And three months ago I had a nice discussion with one of the people responsible for the Game Gear version: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18652227 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18652227
- philistine 8y ago
  No one has video proof that the 16-player indeed exists. Until I see it played with real hardware, I am without an ounce of shame, saying it doesn’t work. The Game Boy has many unsubstantiated information repeated ad nauseum so I’m limping this fabled sixteen player mode with that.
  - Lutzb 8y ago
    According to an interview with one of the developers it is not possible to play it with the standard 4-player adaptor in 16 player mode. the developers came up with a daisy chain method but did not release the hardware nor the specs. Daisy chaining the four player adaptors would not have worked. https://web.archive.org/web/20100509163809/http://fb2k.retro-spect.ca/rchampagne.html https://web.archive.org/web/20100509163809/http://fb2k.retro...
  - mycall 8y ago
    16-player using 31.25 kbit/s, that would be interesting.
    - mysterydip 8y ago
      Why? The framerate was low, movement wasn't super fast, turning limited by the controls, and you were all playing on the same plane. Doesn't take that much to send x+y+direction.
kazinator 8y ago
Thanks; this is nice to know about when talking to people about MIDI.
feross 8y ago
Wow, MIDI continues to show up in so many places! I recently gave a talk about how to reincarnate the <bgsound> HTML tag with MIDI support and included a huge list of surprising ways that MIDI is used, but I'll have to add MIDI Maze to the list! https://youtu.be/BmfDMylKo5I?t=624 https://youtu.be/BmfDMylKo5I?t=624
- romwell 8y ago
  >MIDI continues to show up in so many places It always surprises me when people say that :) The thing is, background MIDI on web pages was sort of an accidental quirk in the history of the protocol. Its primary function has always been its face value; it's literally in the name: Musical Instrument Digital Interface. And that's where MIDI has dominated since its introduction in the 80's. Which, in some ways, is not for the best, because a better name for the protocol would have been Keyboard-Driven Instrument Interface. MIDI messages (to the extent that they are standardized) aren't good for anything else. ROLI Seaboard is an example of pushing the protocol to its limits. The original spec didn't have polyphonic pitch bend (so a continuous slide from a minor chord into a major one is not possible); ROLI gets around it by transmitting each note one a different MIDI channel as if it were a separate instrument. This example is just one limitation, but there are plenty; there's no good (read: standard) way to control a stringed instrument (or its emulation) with MIDI. You can play one note on a guitar in 4 ways (on 4 different strings), but MIDI isn't specced for that. Horns are passable because they are monophonic, but controlling performance aspects is up to the software. Drums get away by assigning different MIDI notes to different ways of playing a drum. Etc. The thing is, the protocol was made just barely flexible enough that it lasted to these days; and the ability to drive an 80's synth with a controller built today (and connect them all to a modern computer/iPad/etc) is an amazing feature. Because of that, MIDI underpins all modern digital instruments and music software. And because of that, anyone who makes electronic music is a keyboardist (or at least has a MIDI keyboard). The word MIDI controller pretty much defaults to MIDI keyboard. Want to really have your mind blown about where MIDI shows up? The shape of the protocol defines the shape of the music. Just like different programming languages encourage different styles, so do musical instruments and their physical interfaces. And so the absolute majority of electronic music today is written from a keyboardist perspective. You won't get to hear a minor chord continuously slide into a major one in pretty much any music you hear that was made with digital/software instruments/computers. Because the piano can't to that. And because of that, the keyboards can't. And so the synthesizers don't. And so MIDI doesn't. And so nearly all music software, for decades, wouldn't. (Some does, but it's not standard, so no mass adoption.) And so your music doesn't have it a major chord slide into a minor. Because even if you don't play keyboards, your interface to digital instruments is still a piano roll. Because MIDI. I'm really looking forward to MIDI 2.0.
chiph 8y ago
I remember reading the reviews of this game in ST Informer, and wanted to play it. But I didn't know any other ST owners in the area. :(
georgefrick 8y ago
When I was younger I used to get to play this at Gencon when it was still in Milwaukee. All around a good time and the tech is interesting.
siberianbear 8y ago
In Sacramento, for awhile from about 1988-1992 there were monthly meetups where everyone who had an Atari ST would bring them and play MIDI Maze. We occasionally had so many people that we would make two rings because we exceeded the limit of 16 computers. I owned two Atari STs at the time, so I was always popular at these events.
NikkiA 8y ago
At about that time frame, at university we were playing a similar clone of Maze Wars that ran over appletalk and allowed up to 30 players: https://www.mobygames.com/game/macintosh/maze-wars_ https://www.mobygames.com/game/macintosh/maze-wars_
a-dub 8y ago
Used to play this in the 80s. LAN parties before the LAN. Good times! :) Although the most amusing part is that if you wanted more than 4 colors (which was basically any game) you had to use "Low" resolution mode which was only 320 by 200. MIDIMAZE took it a step further and only used about 1/4 of the screen leaving you with only about 160 by 100 of gameplay area. I guess networked multiplayer first person shooters over daisy chained serial lines were pretty heavy duty for machines designed in 1985. :) Other fun ST facts: They were huge in early electronic music because they were cheap and had those handy built in MIDI ports. I believe cubase was originally written for the ST. They have 4 characters buried in their character set that you can assemble into a square and get a picture of "Bob" from Church of the Subgenius fame. When they had a machine exception, they'd paint little bombs on the left side of the screen, where the number of them indicated the exception type (bus error, 0 divide, etc)
- bhauer 8y ago
  Some friends and I used to have gatherings to set up MIDI-rings and play MIDI-Maze for hours. I'm having difficulty remembering, but I think we sometimes had as many as eight players. The more players, the more likely the dreaded "MIDI-ring boo-boo" would interrupt a game. I wrote a map designer in GFA Basic, and I recall we had a bunch of custom maps as a result. Definitely a spiritual precursor to DOOM on a LAN.
  - a-dub 8y ago
    The first "network programming" I ever did was a GFA Basic program that talked over MIDI between two STs. Long before I ever saw a real networking protocol or a "null modem cable.". :)
- djaychela 8y ago
  >They were huge in early electronic music because they were cheap and had those handy built in MIDI ports. I believe cubase was originally written for the ST. Indeed - the reason I got into electronic music was because I had an ST (and that was part of the reason I got an ST, if you get my meaning). Tried Pro 24, and then got hold of Cubase. Used to spend hours improvising music using it, using muting via the F-keys. Rock solid setup, just worked and was dead easy and quick to use. Amazingly it translates to the version in use today - I used to show it to my pupils (via an ST emulator) to show them how what they were using had a history going back 20+ years. I wonder how different the musical landscape would have been without MIDI ports being built into the ST. Yes, of course, you can buy an interface, but if it's already there...
kgwxd 8y ago
I was a little young for the original, but Faceball 2000 has a special place in my heart. I asked for the Game Boy 4-player adapter just hoping one day I'd know enough people with the game to play a full match. Most I ever got together was 3, but it was exciting as hell.
_0ffh 8y ago
Used to play an open source clone of this in the universities' computer pool, after doing the SPARC assembler assignments, on the same boxes. Good memories.
megaremote 8y ago
> The original MIDI Maze team consisted of James Yee as the business manager, Michael Park as the graphic and networking programmer, and George Miller writing the AI/drone logic. So, what did James do?
- Keyframe 8y ago
  James Yee, owner of Xanth, had a vision...

95 points by lelf 8y ago

msla 8y ago

Handheld deathmatch! > A Game Boy version was developed by the original developers, Xanth Software F/X, and published in 1991 by Bulletproof Software, under the title Faceball 2000. [snip] It is notable for being the only Game Boy game to support 16 simultaneous players. It was thought it did so by connecting multiple copies of the Four Player Adapter to one another so that each additional adapter added another two players up to the maximum - thus seven such adapters would have been needed for a 16 player experience. And three months ago I had a nice discussion with one of the people responsible for the Game Gear version: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18652227 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18652227

philistine 8y ago
No one has video proof that the 16-player indeed exists. Until I see it played with real hardware, I am without an ounce of shame, saying it doesn’t work. The Game Boy has many unsubstantiated information repeated ad nauseum so I’m limping this fabled sixteen player mode with that.
- Lutzb 8y ago
  According to an interview with one of the developers it is not possible to play it with the standard 4-player adaptor in 16 player mode. the developers came up with a daisy chain method but did not release the hardware nor the specs. Daisy chaining the four player adaptors would not have worked. https://web.archive.org/web/20100509163809/http://fb2k.retro-spect.ca/rchampagne.html https://web.archive.org/web/20100509163809/http://fb2k.retro...
- mycall 8y ago
  16-player using 31.25 kbit/s, that would be interesting.
  - mysterydip 8y ago
    Why? The framerate was low, movement wasn't super fast, turning limited by the controls, and you were all playing on the same plane. Doesn't take that much to send x+y+direction.

kazinator 8y ago

Thanks; this is nice to know about when talking to people about MIDI.

feross 8y ago

Wow, MIDI continues to show up in so many places! I recently gave a talk about how to reincarnate the <bgsound> HTML tag with MIDI support and included a huge list of surprising ways that MIDI is used, but I'll have to add MIDI Maze to the list! https://youtu.be/BmfDMylKo5I?t=624 https://youtu.be/BmfDMylKo5I?t=624

romwell 8y ago
>MIDI continues to show up in so many places It always surprises me when people say that :) The thing is, background MIDI on web pages was sort of an accidental quirk in the history of the protocol. Its primary function has always been its face value; it's literally in the name: Musical Instrument Digital Interface. And that's where MIDI has dominated since its introduction in the 80's. Which, in some ways, is not for the best, because a better name for the protocol would have been Keyboard-Driven Instrument Interface. MIDI messages (to the extent that they are standardized) aren't good for anything else. ROLI Seaboard is an example of pushing the protocol to its limits. The original spec didn't have polyphonic pitch bend (so a continuous slide from a minor chord into a major one is not possible); ROLI gets around it by transmitting each note one a different MIDI channel as if it were a separate instrument. This example is just one limitation, but there are plenty; there's no good (read: standard) way to control a stringed instrument (or its emulation) with MIDI. You can play one note on a guitar in 4 ways (on 4 different strings), but MIDI isn't specced for that. Horns are passable because they are monophonic, but controlling performance aspects is up to the software. Drums get away by assigning different MIDI notes to different ways of playing a drum. Etc. The thing is, the protocol was made just barely flexible enough that it lasted to these days; and the ability to drive an 80's synth with a controller built today (and connect them all to a modern computer/iPad/etc) is an amazing feature. Because of that, MIDI underpins all modern digital instruments and music software. And because of that, anyone who makes electronic music is a keyboardist (or at least has a MIDI keyboard). The word MIDI controller pretty much defaults to MIDI keyboard. Want to really have your mind blown about where MIDI shows up? The shape of the protocol defines the shape of the music. Just like different programming languages encourage different styles, so do musical instruments and their physical interfaces. And so the absolute majority of electronic music today is written from a keyboardist perspective. You won't get to hear a minor chord continuously slide into a major one in pretty much any music you hear that was made with digital/software instruments/computers. Because the piano can't to that. And because of that, the keyboards can't. And so the synthesizers don't. And so MIDI doesn't. And so nearly all music software, for decades, wouldn't. (Some does, but it's not standard, so no mass adoption.) And so your music doesn't have it a major chord slide into a minor. Because even if you don't play keyboards, your interface to digital instruments is still a piano roll. Because MIDI. I'm really looking forward to MIDI 2.0.

chiph 8y ago

I remember reading the reviews of this game in ST Informer, and wanted to play it. But I didn't know any other ST owners in the area. :(

georgefrick 8y ago

When I was younger I used to get to play this at Gencon when it was still in Milwaukee. All around a good time and the tech is interesting.

siberianbear 8y ago

In Sacramento, for awhile from about 1988-1992 there were monthly meetups where everyone who had an Atari ST would bring them and play MIDI Maze. We occasionally had so many people that we would make two rings because we exceeded the limit of 16 computers. I owned two Atari STs at the time, so I was always popular at these events.

NikkiA 8y ago

At about that time frame, at university we were playing a similar clone of Maze Wars that ran over appletalk and allowed up to 30 players: https://www.mobygames.com/game/macintosh/maze-wars_ https://www.mobygames.com/game/macintosh/maze-wars_

a-dub 8y ago

Used to play this in the 80s. LAN parties before the LAN. Good times! :) Although the most amusing part is that if you wanted more than 4 colors (which was basically any game) you had to use "Low" resolution mode which was only 320 by 200. MIDIMAZE took it a step further and only used about 1/4 of the screen leaving you with only about 160 by 100 of gameplay area. I guess networked multiplayer first person shooters over daisy chained serial lines were pretty heavy duty for machines designed in 1985. :) Other fun ST facts: They were huge in early electronic music because they were cheap and had those handy built in MIDI ports. I believe cubase was originally written for the ST. They have 4 characters buried in their character set that you can assemble into a square and get a picture of "Bob" from Church of the Subgenius fame. When they had a machine exception, they'd paint little bombs on the left side of the screen, where the number of them indicated the exception type (bus error, 0 divide, etc)

bhauer 8y ago
Some friends and I used to have gatherings to set up MIDI-rings and play MIDI-Maze for hours. I'm having difficulty remembering, but I think we sometimes had as many as eight players. The more players, the more likely the dreaded "MIDI-ring boo-boo" would interrupt a game. I wrote a map designer in GFA Basic, and I recall we had a bunch of custom maps as a result. Definitely a spiritual precursor to DOOM on a LAN.
- a-dub 8y ago
  The first "network programming" I ever did was a GFA Basic program that talked over MIDI between two STs. Long before I ever saw a real networking protocol or a "null modem cable.". :)
djaychela 8y ago
>They were huge in early electronic music because they were cheap and had those handy built in MIDI ports. I believe cubase was originally written for the ST. Indeed - the reason I got into electronic music was because I had an ST (and that was part of the reason I got an ST, if you get my meaning). Tried Pro 24, and then got hold of Cubase. Used to spend hours improvising music using it, using muting via the F-keys. Rock solid setup, just worked and was dead easy and quick to use. Amazingly it translates to the version in use today - I used to show it to my pupils (via an ST emulator) to show them how what they were using had a history going back 20+ years. I wonder how different the musical landscape would have been without MIDI ports being built into the ST. Yes, of course, you can buy an interface, but if it's already there...

kgwxd 8y ago

I was a little young for the original, but Faceball 2000 has a special place in my heart. I asked for the Game Boy 4-player adapter just hoping one day I'd know enough people with the game to play a full match. Most I ever got together was 3, but it was exciting as hell.

_0ffh 8y ago

Used to play an open source clone of this in the universities' computer pool, after doing the SPARC assembler assignments, on the same boxes. Good memories.

megaremote 8y ago

> The original MIDI Maze team consisted of James Yee as the business manager, Michael Park as the graphic and networking programmer, and George Miller writing the AI/drone logic. So, what did James do?

Keyframe 8y ago
James Yee, owner of Xanth, had a vision...