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A 15 second google shows the top social media sites based off monthly active users. Tell me an equivalent, viable platform to rival Facebook/Instagram that does

A 15 second google shows the top social media sites based off monthly active users. Tell me an equivalent, viable platform to rival Facebook/Instagram that doesn't share the same political values. https://www.statista.com/statistics/247597/global-traffic-to-leading-us-social-networking-sites/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/247597/global-traffic-to...

Pharmakon 8y ago
Having the biggest audience and being monopolistic are not the same thing. Heinz Ketchup is the utterly dominant brand of ketchup in America by an order of magnitude. They sell more ketchup than every other brand combined in the U.S. and it is not a monopoly. Every attempt to make some new upstart ketchup has failed, and generations are totally sold on just Heinz with a degree of brand loyalty FB would kill to get... and yet they are not a monopoly nor has it been seriously alleged that they are.
- charliesharding 8y ago
  Right, because it's extremely easy to find other brands that are effective in the same way. A social network's purpose and efficacy is directly related to the number of users in that network. Not at all analogous
  - Pharmakon 8y ago
    Not about an analogy, it’s just illustrating the point that market share and monopoly are not synonyms. As to a social network being effective in direct proportion to the number of users, it would really depend on what you want to use it for. Eternal September theory certainly shoots down the general case of your claim though.
    - charliesharding 8y ago
      Never claimed they were. "it would really depend on what you want to use it for" It was my understanding that social media platforms were for connecting with people and sharing content/ideas with them. If you're trying to rebut my claim, you're going to have to actually do it, not point to something else and claim that it does.
      - Pharmakon 8y ago
        What claim is there to rebut? A 15 second google shows the top social media sites based off monthly active users. Tell me an equivalent, viable platform to rival Facebook/Instagram that doesn't share the same political values. I’m not seeing a claim there, and what you did bring up (marketshare) I’ve responded to. If you want an alternative to mainstream social media, they exist and aren’t as popular, but since we’ve agreed that popularity isn’t monopolistic... who cares?
        stcredzero 8y ago
        The 1990's notion of "monopoly" is as outdated as farmers owning the sky above their farms. The power in media in 2019 comes from the combination of virality/discovery+monetization. A small number of people controlling virality/discovery+monetization can seek to effectively control all speech that matters and seek to control public thought. Doling out virality/discovery+monetization on an ideological basis, contrary to the wishes of large numbers of people in public basically nullifies meaningful Free Speech in 2019.
        fixermark 8y ago
        Nobody's stopping these "large numbers of people" from swapping URLs. They may get stopped from having their message show up in the "recommended videos" column on YouTube, and that's fine. Nobody has a right to be in that column. (When the man said "The revolution will not be televised?" This is what he was talking about. ;) )
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Nobody's stopping these "large numbers of people" from swapping URLs. In 2019, you might as well restrict those guilty of wrongthink to standing on soapboxes and distributing pamphlets. Everyone you don't like will be restricted to the technology of 20 years ago. (When the man said "The revolution will not be televised?" This is what he was talking about. ;) ) Basically, in 2019, if you don't have virality+monetization, you don't have the franchise.
bduerst 8y ago
First, this is cherry picking US-only data. Social networks are not regionally-locked monopolies, and QQ and other have decent marketshare: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272014/global-social-networks-ranked-by-number-of-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272014/global-social-net... To further Pharmakon's point - being a popular product on the market doesn't mean monopoly or lack of competition. A monopoly is a company with dominant marketshare, but not all companies with dominant marketshare are monopolies. Facebook has competition.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  "Monopoly" as formulated back before the 1990's is outdated in terms of the issue of Free Speech in 2019. Mere dominant marketshare enabled by network effects can be used to enact effective censorship. Censorship doesn't need to take the form of absolute censorship -- and hasn't since the 1980's. (See Manufacturing Consent) The power of viral trending and discovery, combined with the synergistic economic advantage of monetization amount to an insurmountable advantage in 2019. A small group of Silicon Valley oligarchs reserving this power for only the opinions they like is absolutely dangerous. Calling the situation "fair" would be like calling "fair" a race between someone in a Tesla and someone on horseback. Opinions guided by such power have nothing to do with debate or seeking truth. That's all just power controlling discourse, and through that, controlling society's thought. That's like declaring a vigilante group to have "won" the public mandate, because they have all the guns, and no one speaks up against them. If SV's CEOs really want the right ideas to win in the marketplace of ideas, they need to create fair stages and level playing fields. They need to fully acknowledge the human right of Free Speech. They need to stop coercing. It's the bias and use of power (essentially corruption) which fuels the horrible voices.

Pharmakon 8y ago

Having the biggest audience and being monopolistic are not the same thing. Heinz Ketchup is the utterly dominant brand of ketchup in America by an order of magnitude. They sell more ketchup than every other brand combined in the U.S. and it is not a monopoly. Every attempt to make some new upstart ketchup has failed, and generations are totally sold on just Heinz with a degree of brand loyalty FB would kill to get... and yet they are not a monopoly nor has it been seriously alleged that they are.

charliesharding 8y ago
Right, because it's extremely easy to find other brands that are effective in the same way. A social network's purpose and efficacy is directly related to the number of users in that network. Not at all analogous
- Pharmakon 8y ago
  Not about an analogy, it’s just illustrating the point that market share and monopoly are not synonyms. As to a social network being effective in direct proportion to the number of users, it would really depend on what you want to use it for. Eternal September theory certainly shoots down the general case of your claim though.
  - charliesharding 8y ago
    Never claimed they were. "it would really depend on what you want to use it for" It was my understanding that social media platforms were for connecting with people and sharing content/ideas with them. If you're trying to rebut my claim, you're going to have to actually do it, not point to something else and claim that it does.
    - Pharmakon 8y ago
      What claim is there to rebut? A 15 second google shows the top social media sites based off monthly active users. Tell me an equivalent, viable platform to rival Facebook/Instagram that doesn't share the same political values. I’m not seeing a claim there, and what you did bring up (marketshare) I’ve responded to. If you want an alternative to mainstream social media, they exist and aren’t as popular, but since we’ve agreed that popularity isn’t monopolistic... who cares?
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        The 1990's notion of "monopoly" is as outdated as farmers owning the sky above their farms. The power in media in 2019 comes from the combination of virality/discovery+monetization. A small number of people controlling virality/discovery+monetization can seek to effectively control all speech that matters and seek to control public thought. Doling out virality/discovery+monetization on an ideological basis, contrary to the wishes of large numbers of people in public basically nullifies meaningful Free Speech in 2019.
        fixermark 8y ago
        Nobody's stopping these "large numbers of people" from swapping URLs. They may get stopped from having their message show up in the "recommended videos" column on YouTube, and that's fine. Nobody has a right to be in that column. (When the man said "The revolution will not be televised?" This is what he was talking about. ;) )
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Nobody's stopping these "large numbers of people" from swapping URLs. In 2019, you might as well restrict those guilty of wrongthink to standing on soapboxes and distributing pamphlets. Everyone you don't like will be restricted to the technology of 20 years ago. (When the man said "The revolution will not be televised?" This is what he was talking about. ;) ) Basically, in 2019, if you don't have virality+monetization, you don't have the franchise.

bduerst 8y ago

First, this is cherry picking US-only data. Social networks are not regionally-locked monopolies, and QQ and other have decent marketshare: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272014/global-social-networks-ranked-by-number-of-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272014/global-social-net... To further Pharmakon's point - being a popular product on the market doesn't mean monopoly or lack of competition. A monopoly is a company with dominant marketshare, but not all companies with dominant marketshare are monopolies. Facebook has competition.

stcredzero 8y ago
"Monopoly" as formulated back before the 1990's is outdated in terms of the issue of Free Speech in 2019. Mere dominant marketshare enabled by network effects can be used to enact effective censorship. Censorship doesn't need to take the form of absolute censorship -- and hasn't since the 1980's. (See Manufacturing Consent) The power of viral trending and discovery, combined with the synergistic economic advantage of monetization amount to an insurmountable advantage in 2019. A small group of Silicon Valley oligarchs reserving this power for only the opinions they like is absolutely dangerous. Calling the situation "fair" would be like calling "fair" a race between someone in a Tesla and someone on horseback. Opinions guided by such power have nothing to do with debate or seeking truth. That's all just power controlling discourse, and through that, controlling society's thought. That's like declaring a vigilante group to have "won" the public mandate, because they have all the guns, and no one speaks up against them. If SV's CEOs really want the right ideas to win in the marketplace of ideas, they need to create fair stages and level playing fields. They need to fully acknowledge the human right of Free Speech. They need to stop coercing. It's the bias and use of power (essentially corruption) which fuels the horrible voices.