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>Our efforts to combat hate don’t stop here. As part of today’s announcement, we’ll also start connecting people who search for terms associated with white supr

>Our efforts to combat hate don’t stop here. As part of today’s announcement, we’ll also start connecting people who search for terms associated with white supremacy to resources focused on helping people leave behind hate groups. People searching for these terms will be directed to Life After Hate, an organization founded by former violent extremists that provides crisis intervention, education, support groups and outreach. The fact that they're readily going down the slippery slope of propaganda by identifying people with Wrong(TM) beliefs and directing them at the Right(TM) beliefs does not sit well with me. Censorship aside, this is a different issue and a very dangerous precedent for a "platform" to be setting IMO.

aabeshou 8y ago
What exactly makes you uncomfortable with calling genocidal racism "Wrong(TM)", and helping people leave it? Are you also uncomfortable with them banning child porn, or is that an example of punishing wrongthink too? EDIT: I invite downvoters to tell me why they disagree?
- im3w1l 8y ago
  I think you have a misunderstanding of the word "white nationalism". I'd recommend looking it up to understand what is happening here. But in short it means the belief that there is a white race and that it has a right to preserve itself and it's culture. Genocidal racism was never allowed on facebook. After this move they will censor a lot of legitimate things.
  - qualipetv 8y ago
    White nationalism is not a legitimate thing and I implore you to get in contact with networks that help individuals get out of hate groups.
    - im3w1l 8y ago
      Your jumping to conclusions exemplifies why this move by facebook is so incredibly dangerous. You jump from "censoring white nationalism will censor legitimate opinions" (such as there "there is a white race" - a question on which there are good arguments for both sides, and which it's reasonable to debate), to I hold such opinions. Then you jump from a few of those opinions to hatred. And then you jump from there to being part of hate groups. Calm down and think.
      - qualipetv 8y ago
        Your bullshit is incredibly dangerous. There is no such thing as a single White Race. There is no legitimate ‘other side’ here. Not scientifically and not even somewhat acceptable socially. Calm down yourself and maybe read a little, that way you’ll maybe understand why people are stingy about this. I still would like for us all to get along so in that sense I’m very happy there’s networks for people trying to get out of the white nationalist sympathizing mindset.
  - aabeshou 8y ago
    I just don't believe that you neutrally believe "there's a white race" without also believing in its superiority over other races - whatever reasons you euphemize it in, like culture, or IQ, or something. And this idea of "preserving itself"... what exactly does that mean? Does that mean getting to kick other people out of their homes? Threaten their livelihood? Threaten their social safety nets? What exactly happens in this supposedly benign process of "preserving culture"?
- devmunchies 8y ago
  > genocidal racism not allowing people of European decent to have their own state, country, etc IS genocidal. Is it "supremacy" and "racism" to simply advocate for the preservation of a culture and people? Whether you agree, they should at least be able to talk about it without being labeled "genocidal racists". (Not talking about actual white supremacists. Don't believe I've ever met one.)
  - reefoctopus 8y ago
    One of the best parts about having the freedom of speech is that I’m free to label those people genocidal racists.Freedom of speech doesn’t protect you in any way from being shamed for holding disgusting beliefs.
    - devmunchies 8y ago
      > Whether you agree, they should at least be able to talk about it without being de-platformed for being labeled "genocidal racists". Fixed. >One of the best parts about having the freedom of speech is that I’m free to label those people genocidal racists And now you can do so on facebook in peace with all the other genocidal racists.
- qualipetv 8y ago
  I find it worrying that a) you’re being downvoted and b) there actually being sympathies for white nationalism and fascist thought on HN. We all who love freedom and love our friends whatever background they may have should be working to not let these kinds of people obtain more power.
  - speedplane 8y ago
    > I find it worrying that a) you’re being downvoted and b) there actually being sympathies for white nationalism and fascist thought on HN. Ugh... I knew this day would the come. The slashdot crowd has found out about HN.
    - qualipetv 8y ago
      I don’t know what slashdot is but thanks for the ad hom. Btw you’re not some kind of special person only because you have an account on HN.
      - aabeshou 8y ago
        I had the same interpretation as you but after rereading and looking at their comment history I think they are actually quoting you to concur with you, i.e. the white nationalists are the slashdot crowd
        qualipetv 8y ago
        Yeah I was getting way too defensive in this thread. You're probably right and it's terrible the fascist threat makes me react totally unjust to fellow commenters meaning well.
    - aabeshou 8y ago
      I don't know what to make of it. Has this always been here? Has it surged recently? I really don't know what to think.
  - aabeshou 8y ago
stiangrindvoll 8y ago
Also, By mere searching for specific terms, Facebook gladly assume your motives to be to in particular way. This seem misguided and not well thought through. Finding a book in the library about frogs, doesn't make you a frog.
- alexandre_m 8y ago
  I find that specific part to be terrifying. You could be searching for those terms for a good reason, maybe I'm writing an essay about the spread of white nationalism and want to see how many groups exist online, or whatever. It's very dangerous to label people and infer their intention automatically.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    So make a specific account for research purposes like everyone else does.
    - throwawayjava 8y ago
      > like everyone else does. Some people who research white nationalism don't make specific accounts for research purposes [1]. In general, and based on my own usage patterns, I think it's probably dangerous and definitely scary to assume that googling for "X" on your primary account implies that you support "X" [1] Source: Currently sitting next to someone who is literally a full time white supremacy researcher.
      - anigbrowl 8y ago
        Sounds like pretty bad opsec to me, but to each their own.
        throwawayjava 8y ago
        The whole point of natural rights is that normal law-abiding people shouldn't need "opsec" against their own government or domestic corporations.
ratling 8y ago
There is no slippery slope argument when you're talking about literal Nazis. We went to war on the subject.
- OpenBSD-supreme 8y ago
  ... and the NSDAP were the good guys in that war!
- dmix 8y ago
  This comment perfectly encompasses why it's a slippery slope. The definition of "literal Nazi" is use so broadly in political discourse. Politicians have been called Hitler and Nazi since Hitler and Nazis became a thing. The massive danger is going to be the countless false positives this thinking generates. Just like the craziness of arresting the guy whose dog made a nazi salute in the video. He would be denied access to social media because of stupid interpretations of a joke. This isn't about defending or persecuting Nazis, it's about protecting the public from systems of abuse. Not to mention the ineffectiveness of online censorship. The only worse thing are Nazis organizing on public platforms is forcing them to congregate only with other Nazis on radical websites where no one will challenge their worldview. But that's a totally different discussion.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    The only worse thing are Nazis organizing on public platforms is forcing them to congregate only with other Nazis on radical websites where no one will challenge their worldview. Sorry, don't agree. Forcing them to congregate on unpopular websites is great because those websites have a terrible reputation and that massively hinders recruitment. Sure, they're echo chambers, but extremists already use private fora for more underground organizing activity and likewise there are people who specialize in monitoring and infiltrating those websites. If your argument is that they just need to be talked around with reason and logic, you can always go to one of their websites and give it a try. Sure, deradicalization can work and it's great when it does, but generally the odds are poor and it's extremely labor intensive.
  - ratling 8y ago

aabeshou 8y ago

What exactly makes you uncomfortable with calling genocidal racism "Wrong(TM)", and helping people leave it? Are you also uncomfortable with them banning child porn, or is that an example of punishing wrongthink too? EDIT: I invite downvoters to tell me why they disagree?

im3w1l 8y ago
I think you have a misunderstanding of the word "white nationalism". I'd recommend looking it up to understand what is happening here. But in short it means the belief that there is a white race and that it has a right to preserve itself and it's culture. Genocidal racism was never allowed on facebook. After this move they will censor a lot of legitimate things.
- qualipetv 8y ago
  White nationalism is not a legitimate thing and I implore you to get in contact with networks that help individuals get out of hate groups.
  - im3w1l 8y ago
    Your jumping to conclusions exemplifies why this move by facebook is so incredibly dangerous. You jump from "censoring white nationalism will censor legitimate opinions" (such as there "there is a white race" - a question on which there are good arguments for both sides, and which it's reasonable to debate), to I hold such opinions. Then you jump from a few of those opinions to hatred. And then you jump from there to being part of hate groups. Calm down and think.
    - qualipetv 8y ago
      Your bullshit is incredibly dangerous. There is no such thing as a single White Race. There is no legitimate ‘other side’ here. Not scientifically and not even somewhat acceptable socially. Calm down yourself and maybe read a little, that way you’ll maybe understand why people are stingy about this. I still would like for us all to get along so in that sense I’m very happy there’s networks for people trying to get out of the white nationalist sympathizing mindset.
- aabeshou 8y ago
  I just don't believe that you neutrally believe "there's a white race" without also believing in its superiority over other races - whatever reasons you euphemize it in, like culture, or IQ, or something. And this idea of "preserving itself"... what exactly does that mean? Does that mean getting to kick other people out of their homes? Threaten their livelihood? Threaten their social safety nets? What exactly happens in this supposedly benign process of "preserving culture"?
devmunchies 8y ago
> genocidal racism not allowing people of European decent to have their own state, country, etc IS genocidal. Is it "supremacy" and "racism" to simply advocate for the preservation of a culture and people? Whether you agree, they should at least be able to talk about it without being labeled "genocidal racists". (Not talking about actual white supremacists. Don't believe I've ever met one.)
- reefoctopus 8y ago
  One of the best parts about having the freedom of speech is that I’m free to label those people genocidal racists.Freedom of speech doesn’t protect you in any way from being shamed for holding disgusting beliefs.
  - devmunchies 8y ago
    > Whether you agree, they should at least be able to talk about it without being de-platformed for being labeled "genocidal racists". Fixed. >One of the best parts about having the freedom of speech is that I’m free to label those people genocidal racists And now you can do so on facebook in peace with all the other genocidal racists.
qualipetv 8y ago
I find it worrying that a) you’re being downvoted and b) there actually being sympathies for white nationalism and fascist thought on HN. We all who love freedom and love our friends whatever background they may have should be working to not let these kinds of people obtain more power.
- speedplane 8y ago
  > I find it worrying that a) you’re being downvoted and b) there actually being sympathies for white nationalism and fascist thought on HN. Ugh... I knew this day would the come. The slashdot crowd has found out about HN.
  - qualipetv 8y ago
    I don’t know what slashdot is but thanks for the ad hom. Btw you’re not some kind of special person only because you have an account on HN.
    - aabeshou 8y ago
      I had the same interpretation as you but after rereading and looking at their comment history I think they are actually quoting you to concur with you, i.e. the white nationalists are the slashdot crowd
      - qualipetv 8y ago
        Yeah I was getting way too defensive in this thread. You're probably right and it's terrible the fascist threat makes me react totally unjust to fellow commenters meaning well.
  - aabeshou 8y ago
    I don't know what to make of it. Has this always been here? Has it surged recently? I really don't know what to think.
- aabeshou 8y ago

stiangrindvoll 8y ago

Also, By mere searching for specific terms, Facebook gladly assume your motives to be to in particular way. This seem misguided and not well thought through. Finding a book in the library about frogs, doesn't make you a frog.

alexandre_m 8y ago
I find that specific part to be terrifying. You could be searching for those terms for a good reason, maybe I'm writing an essay about the spread of white nationalism and want to see how many groups exist online, or whatever. It's very dangerous to label people and infer their intention automatically.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  So make a specific account for research purposes like everyone else does.
  - throwawayjava 8y ago
    > like everyone else does. Some people who research white nationalism don't make specific accounts for research purposes [1]. In general, and based on my own usage patterns, I think it's probably dangerous and definitely scary to assume that googling for "X" on your primary account implies that you support "X" [1] Source: Currently sitting next to someone who is literally a full time white supremacy researcher.
    - anigbrowl 8y ago
      Sounds like pretty bad opsec to me, but to each their own.
      - throwawayjava 8y ago
        The whole point of natural rights is that normal law-abiding people shouldn't need "opsec" against their own government or domestic corporations.

ratling 8y ago

There is no slippery slope argument when you're talking about literal Nazis. We went to war on the subject.

OpenBSD-supreme 8y ago
... and the NSDAP were the good guys in that war!
dmix 8y ago
This comment perfectly encompasses why it's a slippery slope. The definition of "literal Nazi" is use so broadly in political discourse. Politicians have been called Hitler and Nazi since Hitler and Nazis became a thing. The massive danger is going to be the countless false positives this thinking generates. Just like the craziness of arresting the guy whose dog made a nazi salute in the video. He would be denied access to social media because of stupid interpretations of a joke. This isn't about defending or persecuting Nazis, it's about protecting the public from systems of abuse. Not to mention the ineffectiveness of online censorship. The only worse thing are Nazis organizing on public platforms is forcing them to congregate only with other Nazis on radical websites where no one will challenge their worldview. But that's a totally different discussion.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  The only worse thing are Nazis organizing on public platforms is forcing them to congregate only with other Nazis on radical websites where no one will challenge their worldview. Sorry, don't agree. Forcing them to congregate on unpopular websites is great because those websites have a terrible reputation and that massively hinders recruitment. Sure, they're echo chambers, but extremists already use private fora for more underground organizing activity and likewise there are people who specialize in monitoring and infiltrating those websites. If your argument is that they just need to be talked around with reason and logic, you can always go to one of their websites and give it a try. Sure, deradicalization can work and it's great when it does, but generally the odds are poor and it's extremely labor intensive.
- ratling 8y ago