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Apple has lost that magic it had. It's no longer a special company where people used to wait for hours at a time to buy a phone. Apple isn't that company anymor

Apple has lost that magic it had. It's no longer a special company where people used to wait for hours at a time to buy a phone. Apple isn't that company anymore, where someone with good taste used to make your choices for you, and they somehow knew what you couldn't quite articulate. There was an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook Air, and a MacBook Pro. If you wanted the experience of an Apple phone, you bought an iPhone. You didn't go around asking if you should buy an Xr, Xs, or X, 9, 7, or iPhone googol. You went to the store and bought an iPhone. The product categories were clear. The vision behind them was clearer. Everything just made sense. And it worked too! Apple doesn't make sense anymore. I have a top of the line MacBook Pro 2016 that I can't type on. I am the professional these machines are meant to target. My use case isn't "hardcore" or "niche." It's that of most entrepreneurs, programmers, and designers. I wanted a machine that I could carry around in my backpack with good-enough battery life that could let me work from a coffee shop. Nothing fancy. Nothing complicated. Just a machine that a woman can use at a coffee shop with her soy latte. What I got for my thousands of dollars is a machine that can't be used without its cradle. The keyboard has stopped working correctly despite weekly cleaning. I am worried that the screen will stop working too. And I don't have the time to take my machine back to the store and get it replaced because I'm so busy that I can't live without my computer. Apple was supposed to be the company that made computers for people who do stuff. Now, it's a dividend machine that happens to make crappy computers.

mike_ivanov 8y ago
> professional these machines are meant to target When you are next time in one of those coffee shops, I suggest you to look around to spot people with latest macbooks. Then ask yourself what category of users they belong to. And whether their primary use case is the same as yours.
- FreakyT 8y ago
  Right, so that bolsters OP's point that the categories are so muddled that they no longer really exist. Apple used to cater to both specific markets -- "pro" and "consumer". Now they just label all their machines "pro", despite their evident consumer targeting.
- areoform 8y ago
  It is. Doing emails, calls, documents, a little bit of programming, lots of design stuff. Oh and very few of them like the newer machines. They're all tired of how crappy they can be. This has come up before when I criticize Apple's current product line. I think it's an Apple-specific no true Scotsman fallacy. I buy their products. I own an iPad.I will own an Apple Watch. I had an iPod. I've had three MacBooks. I've used iMacs since I was a little girl. My school had the sunflower iMac way back when and it was the best computer I had ever used. I think I'm fairly representative of their userbase.
  - mike_ivanov 8y ago
    > a little bit of programming, lots of design stuff. > very few of them like the newer machines. This is exactly my point. I used to be a mac fan for many years. Now all it is good for is hanging on Facebook, news websites and occasionally doing stuff in Google Docs. Basically a stylish Chromebook equivalent. This is the pattern I've been seeing for the last couple of years. Serious design people seem to be moving to Windows, programmers - to the same direction, sometimes to Linux.
    - c256 8y ago
      I see “serious design people” using non-laptop macs, and using iPads and/or iPhones instead of laptops for portable devices. There are a few who use Windows, but they are almost uniformly unhappy about it. The people I see who are most happy with Windows are (still) mostly there for gaming.
- arebours 8y ago
  > Then ask yourself what category of users they belong to. Computer users I guess?
Balero 8y ago
I'm currently dealing with the keyboard having a few broken keys, and waiting for a few more before I get it fixed. I got mine in 2017. I have a Macbook air from 2013 that I have put through much worse conditions. The battery isn't doing too good, but the keyboard still works fine. I don't think I'll buy another Mac unless they start putting usability over being 1mm thinner. I would happily have a slightly thicker Macbook Pro, to have a usable keyboard.
- dexterdog 8y ago
  > usability over being 1mm thinner thinner unfortunately wins every time.
notsureifgood 8y ago
Recently made a post on reddit on apathy of Apple to fix my keyboard under warranty. There were quite number of people facing keyboard issue. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/b3966o/update_apple_wont_repair_my_macbook_pro_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/b3966o/update_apple_...
ajkjk 8y ago
You're right, but, at least for laptops, they're still so much better (as in: less frustrating) than the alternatives that it's not even close.
- zaccus 8y ago
  I have a MBP for work and a Thinkpad for personal use. Thinkpad wins, hands down.
  - strifey 8y ago
    What model of Thinkpad? How is the touchpad? The MBP touchpad quality is the main thing I don't want to lose.
    - zaccus 8y ago
      T580. Touchpad is ok, not MBP level though. But it's got a nubbin and I'm a nubbin guy.
      - strifey 8y ago
        I should learn to love the nubbin. I've used Thinkpads briefly in the past and just never got the hang of it.
    - b3b0p 8y ago
      Typical Thinkpad users don't even use the touchpad. They use the Trackpoint. If I had the option, I would configure my Thinkpad BTO without a Touchpad. The Thinkpad Trackpoint (not Dell, HP, or anyone else) is still superior in my opinion to the Touchpad on the MacBook Pro. I own a top of the line BTO 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pro 15".
    - thinkmassive 8y ago
      I've used multiple generations of ThinkPad X1 Carbon at my past 3 full-time gigs, and the touchpad works great in Linux relative to any other laptop I've tried. A large part of the reason the Mac touchpad works so well is tuning in software. I doubt you could come close to tuning it as finely under Linux, but it works well enough.
raverbashing 8y ago
The latest Apple schenanigans: an Apple Pencil that can only be used in some devices and an Apple Pencil that's for the other devices only Ah but they're both called Apple Pencil I'm not making this up
joemi 8y ago
> There was an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook Air, and a MacBook Pro. If you wanted the experience of an Apple phone, you bought an iPhone. You didn't go around asking if you should buy an Xr, Xs, or X, 9, 7, or iPhone googol. You went to the store and bought an iPhone. The product categories were clear. The vision behind them was clearer. Everything just made sense. And it worked too! But back then, people were complaining that there weren't enough choices. A lot of people wanted a bigger phone than the single iPhone size, but at the same time a lot of people would have stopped using iPhones if the single product offering grew to the Xs MAX size. While I do miss the simplicity of the choices, I'm one of those people who most likely would have switched to Android if I couldn't get a small iPhone. I think the one flavor of MacOS is the most important place where they should offer just one model, and fortunately they still do.
- fanf2 8y ago
  Of course Apple have stopped selling the SE which was the only phone they had for people with smaller hands than the top decile. Extra choice is clearly not the reason for their loss of direction.
  - wyclif 8y ago
    Apple is still selling the iPhone SE, IMHO the best version of the iPhone they've ever produced (mostly because 4"): https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance
    - c256 8y ago
      Sadly, the SE is dead. The best you can hope for is that there are is a little refurbished stock available in a usable configuration, but that chance is already slim and dwindling.
      - wyclif 8y ago
        Nope, that's wrong. Look at the above link I posted. Those are new, not refurbished, iPhone SEs.
themagician 8y ago
There is this really weird hindsight about Apple products that I just don't understand. Apple products have always had weird quirks and defects. Always. All of them. The joke about Apple was to make sure you ALWAYS got AppleCare, because the odds of a failure within three years were high and for most repairs you were looking at a minimum of $300. Any repair of a logic board was $600+. I've been using a Mac as my primary machine since the Intel transition in 2006. Every single one has had an repair bill covered by AppleCare that was larger than the cost of AppleCare itself. The video card on the logic board on my first Core Duo iMac failed at some point. $800 repair. My polycarbonate MacBook had the super drive fail. That was like $250 alone. Something else failed with that one but I can't remember. Battery or trackpad maybe. My MacBook Air from 2012 — the screen delaminated — $300 for a new screen + labor that I don't recall. Had it replaced right before the warranty expired, but it's happened again with the replacement as well. And it will eventually happen to every single MacBook Air ever made. Mac products are not designed to last (that's not saying that they can't, but they aren't designed to). They are not designed to be repaired. Never have been. They are designed to get you into a 3-5 year upgrade cycle. Once you realize that it's actually quite freeing because you just don't worry about it the same way you don't worry about the quirks in a leased car. You buy a $3,000 MBP and keep it for three years. You sell it for $1,000 when the warranty expires and get the new one for $3,000. It ends up costing you $55/mo forever, but you always have a new model MBP. That's the Apple model, and that's the way it's always been. If you want a computer that's designed to last you get a ThinkPad or a business-grade Dell/HP.
- manicdee 8y ago
  And yet here I am with a 2010 11” MacBook Air desperately hoping for it to break so I can justify a replacement (just not yet because the new keyboards are crap). I have three iMacs from a Strawberry second gen, one of the last white polycarbonate models (first core 2 duo?) and a 27” iMac in the enclosure with the really thin edge. I have an iPhone 4 which doesn’t run anything I am interested in using, an iPhone 6 which is way overdue for a battery replacement. To get close to the type of problems you have, I’d have to talk about the various Wintel laptops I have had over the years which ended up failing due to external or internal power supply issues, GPUs that just stop working, and batteries that just give up. I have come to accept that Apple is forever, and I only rent time on a Wintel.
arebours 8y ago
Do yourself a favor and get this thing https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ It's not perfect but allows me to work.

mike_ivanov 8y ago

> professional these machines are meant to target When you are next time in one of those coffee shops, I suggest you to look around to spot people with latest macbooks. Then ask yourself what category of users they belong to. And whether their primary use case is the same as yours.

FreakyT 8y ago
Right, so that bolsters OP's point that the categories are so muddled that they no longer really exist. Apple used to cater to both specific markets -- "pro" and "consumer". Now they just label all their machines "pro", despite their evident consumer targeting.
areoform 8y ago
It is. Doing emails, calls, documents, a little bit of programming, lots of design stuff. Oh and very few of them like the newer machines. They're all tired of how crappy they can be. This has come up before when I criticize Apple's current product line. I think it's an Apple-specific no true Scotsman fallacy. I buy their products. I own an iPad.I will own an Apple Watch. I had an iPod. I've had three MacBooks. I've used iMacs since I was a little girl. My school had the sunflower iMac way back when and it was the best computer I had ever used. I think I'm fairly representative of their userbase.
- mike_ivanov 8y ago
  > a little bit of programming, lots of design stuff. > very few of them like the newer machines. This is exactly my point. I used to be a mac fan for many years. Now all it is good for is hanging on Facebook, news websites and occasionally doing stuff in Google Docs. Basically a stylish Chromebook equivalent. This is the pattern I've been seeing for the last couple of years. Serious design people seem to be moving to Windows, programmers - to the same direction, sometimes to Linux.
  - c256 8y ago
    I see “serious design people” using non-laptop macs, and using iPads and/or iPhones instead of laptops for portable devices. There are a few who use Windows, but they are almost uniformly unhappy about it. The people I see who are most happy with Windows are (still) mostly there for gaming.
arebours 8y ago
> Then ask yourself what category of users they belong to. Computer users I guess?

Balero 8y ago

I'm currently dealing with the keyboard having a few broken keys, and waiting for a few more before I get it fixed. I got mine in 2017. I have a Macbook air from 2013 that I have put through much worse conditions. The battery isn't doing too good, but the keyboard still works fine. I don't think I'll buy another Mac unless they start putting usability over being 1mm thinner. I would happily have a slightly thicker Macbook Pro, to have a usable keyboard.

dexterdog 8y ago
> usability over being 1mm thinner thinner unfortunately wins every time.

notsureifgood 8y ago

Recently made a post on reddit on apathy of Apple to fix my keyboard under warranty. There were quite number of people facing keyboard issue. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/b3966o/update_apple_wont_repair_my_macbook_pro_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/b3966o/update_apple_...

ajkjk 8y ago

You're right, but, at least for laptops, they're still so much better (as in: less frustrating) than the alternatives that it's not even close.

zaccus 8y ago
I have a MBP for work and a Thinkpad for personal use. Thinkpad wins, hands down.
- strifey 8y ago
  What model of Thinkpad? How is the touchpad? The MBP touchpad quality is the main thing I don't want to lose.
  - zaccus 8y ago
    T580. Touchpad is ok, not MBP level though. But it's got a nubbin and I'm a nubbin guy.
    - strifey 8y ago
      I should learn to love the nubbin. I've used Thinkpads briefly in the past and just never got the hang of it.
  - b3b0p 8y ago
    Typical Thinkpad users don't even use the touchpad. They use the Trackpoint. If I had the option, I would configure my Thinkpad BTO without a Touchpad. The Thinkpad Trackpoint (not Dell, HP, or anyone else) is still superior in my opinion to the Touchpad on the MacBook Pro. I own a top of the line BTO 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pro 15".
  - thinkmassive 8y ago
    I've used multiple generations of ThinkPad X1 Carbon at my past 3 full-time gigs, and the touchpad works great in Linux relative to any other laptop I've tried. A large part of the reason the Mac touchpad works so well is tuning in software. I doubt you could come close to tuning it as finely under Linux, but it works well enough.

raverbashing 8y ago

The latest Apple schenanigans: an Apple Pencil that can only be used in some devices and an Apple Pencil that's for the other devices only Ah but they're both called Apple Pencil I'm not making this up

joemi 8y ago

> There was an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook Air, and a MacBook Pro. If you wanted the experience of an Apple phone, you bought an iPhone. You didn't go around asking if you should buy an Xr, Xs, or X, 9, 7, or iPhone googol. You went to the store and bought an iPhone. The product categories were clear. The vision behind them was clearer. Everything just made sense. And it worked too! But back then, people were complaining that there weren't enough choices. A lot of people wanted a bigger phone than the single iPhone size, but at the same time a lot of people would have stopped using iPhones if the single product offering grew to the Xs MAX size. While I do miss the simplicity of the choices, I'm one of those people who most likely would have switched to Android if I couldn't get a small iPhone. I think the one flavor of MacOS is the most important place where they should offer just one model, and fortunately they still do.

fanf2 8y ago
Of course Apple have stopped selling the SE which was the only phone they had for people with smaller hands than the top decile. Extra choice is clearly not the reason for their loss of direction.
- wyclif 8y ago
  Apple is still selling the iPhone SE, IMHO the best version of the iPhone they've ever produced (mostly because 4"): https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance
  - c256 8y ago
    Sadly, the SE is dead. The best you can hope for is that there are is a little refurbished stock available in a usable configuration, but that chance is already slim and dwindling.
    - wyclif 8y ago
      Nope, that's wrong. Look at the above link I posted. Those are new, not refurbished, iPhone SEs.

themagician 8y ago

There is this really weird hindsight about Apple products that I just don't understand. Apple products have always had weird quirks and defects. Always. All of them. The joke about Apple was to make sure you ALWAYS got AppleCare, because the odds of a failure within three years were high and for most repairs you were looking at a minimum of $300. Any repair of a logic board was $600+. I've been using a Mac as my primary machine since the Intel transition in 2006. Every single one has had an repair bill covered by AppleCare that was larger than the cost of AppleCare itself. The video card on the logic board on my first Core Duo iMac failed at some point. $800 repair. My polycarbonate MacBook had the super drive fail. That was like $250 alone. Something else failed with that one but I can't remember. Battery or trackpad maybe. My MacBook Air from 2012 — the screen delaminated — $300 for a new screen + labor that I don't recall. Had it replaced right before the warranty expired, but it's happened again with the replacement as well. And it will eventually happen to every single MacBook Air ever made. Mac products are not designed to last (that's not saying that they can't, but they aren't designed to). They are not designed to be repaired. Never have been. They are designed to get you into a 3-5 year upgrade cycle. Once you realize that it's actually quite freeing because you just don't worry about it the same way you don't worry about the quirks in a leased car. You buy a $3,000 MBP and keep it for three years. You sell it for $1,000 when the warranty expires and get the new one for $3,000. It ends up costing you $55/mo forever, but you always have a new model MBP. That's the Apple model, and that's the way it's always been. If you want a computer that's designed to last you get a ThinkPad or a business-grade Dell/HP.

manicdee 8y ago
And yet here I am with a 2010 11” MacBook Air desperately hoping for it to break so I can justify a replacement (just not yet because the new keyboards are crap). I have three iMacs from a Strawberry second gen, one of the last white polycarbonate models (first core 2 duo?) and a 27” iMac in the enclosure with the really thin edge. I have an iPhone 4 which doesn’t run anything I am interested in using, an iPhone 6 which is way overdue for a battery replacement. To get close to the type of problems you have, I’d have to talk about the various Wintel laptops I have had over the years which ended up failing due to external or internal power supply issues, GPUs that just stop working, and batteries that just give up. I have come to accept that Apple is forever, and I only rent time on a Wintel.

arebours 8y ago

Do yourself a favor and get this thing https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ It's not perfect but allows me to work.