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> it's actually about something very different than most people think Can you explain what you mean by this?

pcbro141 8y ago
Probably something like: "We don't encourage people to commit terrorist attacks, we only encourage them to do what it takes to ensure the survival and dominance of the white race."
ThomPete 8y ago
It's an ideology and it doesn't in it's essence include any form of violent action at least according to ex their US leader. There are however idiots who support that ideology who end up spewing their hateful crap out on the internet and in forums. Those are two very different things and unfortunately people who are otherwise smart people like here on HN aren't able to separate the two which is why I am being downvoted simply suggesting it's not that simple. ISIS ideology is about killing the infidels and actually doing it, White Nationalism as an ideology about the survival of the white race. Look it up on wikipedia and you will find that it's not the same as the idiots who spew their hateful crap.
- kjdndisneinj 8y ago
  You're doing exactly what literally every expert on white nationalism says that white nationalists do to make their abhorrent views appealing to a wider audience. Either do some self-reflection or admit you're a white nationalist.
- checkyoursudo 8y ago
  If the theorists and proponents have such a difficult time separating an ideology from attempts at violent implementation of a program based on that ideology, then perhaps the violence is in fact part of the ideology after all? If it quacks like a violent duck ...
- josefresco 8y ago
  > It's an ideology ... that's wrong, scientifically and morally. Stop trying to gaslight us all into believing this "ideology" is anything other than backwards thinking, ignorant, hate filled nonsense.
- ssully 8y ago
  The KKK literally went through a period where they claimed to be a non-violent organization. I am sorry, but you are either ignorant, or being intentionally deceptive.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  it doesn't in it's essence include any form of violent action at least according to ex their US leader Who would you consider that to be, please? ISIS ideology is about killing the infidels and actually doing it I really hope you're not going to offer a 'no true Scotsman' argument for why the people who do commit murders or other terrorism in support of WN ideology should be considered as separate from the people espousing said ideology even though quite a lot of them advocate exactly such action. 'Survival of the white race' suggests there is some looming danger of extinction, a position which seems to have little foundation in fact and mostly depends on the trope that non-white people are rushing to outbreed everyone else - ignoring abundant data showing that high birth rates are correlated with poor mortality outcomes and extreme poverty, and move in inverse proportion to economic security. I might add that obfuscation and misdirection are key components of far-right recruitment strategies. Refer, for example, to the style guide from the editor of the Daily Stormer, which emphasizes the rhetorical use of humor, irony, and ambiguity to obfuscate the primary agenda while still achieving emotional activation: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-style-guide_us_5a2ece19e4b0ce3b344492f2 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-styl...
- elliekelly 8y ago
  I'm still having a hard time understanding the difference. From Wikipedia, as you suggested: > White nationalists say they seek to ensure the survival of the white race, and the cultures of historically white states. They hold that white people should maintain their majority in majority-white countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost. Many white nationalists believe that miscegenation, multiculturalism, immigration of nonwhites and low birth rates among whites are threatening the white race, and some believe these things are being promoted as part of an attempted genocide. And the same paragraph with a few substitutions: > [Sunni militants] say they seek to ensure the survival of the [caliphate], and the cultures of historically [Islamic] states. They hold that [Islamic] people should maintain their majority in majority-[Islamic] countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost. Many [Islamic] nationalists believe that miscegenation, multiculturalism, [and] immigration of [non-muslims] are threatening [Islam], and some believe these things are being promoted as part of an attempted genocide. ISIS may be comparatively more violent than white nationalists[1] but as far as ideology goes I struggle to see "two very different things" as you've suggested. [1] At this moment in history at least - the Nazi party certainly fits the Wikipedia definition of "white nationalist".
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    Compare them to antifa. Should fb also ban anti capitalist content because some of us thinks its outright antihumanist just as much as white supremacy is? This is the slippery slope you are walking down here.
    - elliekelly 8y ago
      I’m not walking down any slope as I haven’t said anyone should or shouldn’t be allowed to do anything. You said white supremacy “isn’t even remotely like ISIS” and that people only think that because they “haven’t spent the time understanding” so here I am trying to understand. So far I’m pretty unconvinced.
      - ThomPete 8y ago

Probably something like: "We don't encourage people to commit terrorist attacks, we only encourage them to do what it takes to ensure the survival and dominance of the white race."

ThomPete 8y ago

It's an ideology and it doesn't in it's essence include any form of violent action at least according to ex their US leader. There are however idiots who support that ideology who end up spewing their hateful crap out on the internet and in forums. Those are two very different things and unfortunately people who are otherwise smart people like here on HN aren't able to separate the two which is why I am being downvoted simply suggesting it's not that simple. ISIS ideology is about killing the infidels and actually doing it, White Nationalism as an ideology about the survival of the white race. Look it up on wikipedia and you will find that it's not the same as the idiots who spew their hateful crap.

kjdndisneinj 8y ago
You're doing exactly what literally every expert on white nationalism says that white nationalists do to make their abhorrent views appealing to a wider audience. Either do some self-reflection or admit you're a white nationalist.
checkyoursudo 8y ago
If the theorists and proponents have such a difficult time separating an ideology from attempts at violent implementation of a program based on that ideology, then perhaps the violence is in fact part of the ideology after all? If it quacks like a violent duck ...
josefresco 8y ago
> It's an ideology ... that's wrong, scientifically and morally. Stop trying to gaslight us all into believing this "ideology" is anything other than backwards thinking, ignorant, hate filled nonsense.
ssully 8y ago
The KKK literally went through a period where they claimed to be a non-violent organization. I am sorry, but you are either ignorant, or being intentionally deceptive.
anigbrowl 8y ago
it doesn't in it's essence include any form of violent action at least according to ex their US leader Who would you consider that to be, please? ISIS ideology is about killing the infidels and actually doing it I really hope you're not going to offer a 'no true Scotsman' argument for why the people who do commit murders or other terrorism in support of WN ideology should be considered as separate from the people espousing said ideology even though quite a lot of them advocate exactly such action. 'Survival of the white race' suggests there is some looming danger of extinction, a position which seems to have little foundation in fact and mostly depends on the trope that non-white people are rushing to outbreed everyone else - ignoring abundant data showing that high birth rates are correlated with poor mortality outcomes and extreme poverty, and move in inverse proportion to economic security. I might add that obfuscation and misdirection are key components of far-right recruitment strategies. Refer, for example, to the style guide from the editor of the Daily Stormer, which emphasizes the rhetorical use of humor, irony, and ambiguity to obfuscate the primary agenda while still achieving emotional activation: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-style-guide_us_5a2ece19e4b0ce3b344492f2 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-styl...
elliekelly 8y ago
I'm still having a hard time understanding the difference. From Wikipedia, as you suggested: > White nationalists say they seek to ensure the survival of the white race, and the cultures of historically white states. They hold that white people should maintain their majority in majority-white countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost. Many white nationalists believe that miscegenation, multiculturalism, immigration of nonwhites and low birth rates among whites are threatening the white race, and some believe these things are being promoted as part of an attempted genocide. And the same paragraph with a few substitutions: > [Sunni militants] say they seek to ensure the survival of the [caliphate], and the cultures of historically [Islamic] states. They hold that [Islamic] people should maintain their majority in majority-[Islamic] countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost. Many [Islamic] nationalists believe that miscegenation, multiculturalism, [and] immigration of [non-muslims] are threatening [Islam], and some believe these things are being promoted as part of an attempted genocide. ISIS may be comparatively more violent than white nationalists[1] but as far as ideology goes I struggle to see "two very different things" as you've suggested. [1] At this moment in history at least - the Nazi party certainly fits the Wikipedia definition of "white nationalist".
- ThomPete 8y ago
  Compare them to antifa. Should fb also ban anti capitalist content because some of us thinks its outright antihumanist just as much as white supremacy is? This is the slippery slope you are walking down here.
  - elliekelly 8y ago
    I’m not walking down any slope as I haven’t said anyone should or shouldn’t be allowed to do anything. You said white supremacy “isn’t even remotely like ISIS” and that people only think that because they “haven’t spent the time understanding” so here I am trying to understand. So far I’m pretty unconvinced.
    - ThomPete 8y ago