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> Lawmakers, for example, that are required to pass certain laws by a particular date will sometimes unplug clocks in the legislative chambers to stop the legal

> Lawmakers, for example, that are required to pass certain laws by a particular date will sometimes unplug clocks in the legislative chambers to stop the legal passage of time while negotiations continue. You end up in a situation where, on paper the next day or week, 134 laws were negotiated, voted on, ratified, re-voted, passed, and signed all at exactly $date:23:59:59. A physical impossibility, but a legal fact. Is this internationally accepted or a USA-only thing? It seems like fraud to me.

philwelch 8y ago
The polite term is "legal fiction".
PeterisP 8y ago
I don't know about that particular description, but it kind of makes sense - two bills passed on 27th March parliament session are passed on the same "business day" even if that day gets long and one of them was voted on five minutes before midnight and the other was voted on five minutes past midnight; and if there are some mandated legal delays (e.g. you have x days to before they'll be in force or something) then both bills will be treated as if they were passed on the same date. This also matches common usage - if I tell you what I did on a friday night, it'll include both things before and after midnight. There are also parallels in banking where business days don't align with calendar days, and you may have (depending on regulations and agreements) either a "long friday" or "long monday" where an action that's physically performed on a sunday will be treated with an effective date of friday or monday respectively; or possibly events after the closure of a business day may be legally treated as happened in the day after.
paulddraper 8y ago
I'm not sure whether or not that is true, but "date" is very much a human/legal fiction. Someone could be born before you, yet you have an earlier birthdate than them.
Gibbon1 8y ago
Law/Legal fact vs science or engining fact. They are really different things. Offtopic: One time the Cardinals of the Catholic Church couldn't come to an agreement over the next Pope. After a few months of that the Holy Roman Emperor or some such had workmen remove the roof and locked them inside. A day and a half later, new Pope!

philwelch 8y ago

The polite term is "legal fiction".

PeterisP 8y ago

I don't know about that particular description, but it kind of makes sense - two bills passed on 27th March parliament session are passed on the same "business day" even if that day gets long and one of them was voted on five minutes before midnight and the other was voted on five minutes past midnight; and if there are some mandated legal delays (e.g. you have x days to before they'll be in force or something) then both bills will be treated as if they were passed on the same date. This also matches common usage - if I tell you what I did on a friday night, it'll include both things before and after midnight. There are also parallels in banking where business days don't align with calendar days, and you may have (depending on regulations and agreements) either a "long friday" or "long monday" where an action that's physically performed on a sunday will be treated with an effective date of friday or monday respectively; or possibly events after the closure of a business day may be legally treated as happened in the day after.

paulddraper 8y ago

I'm not sure whether or not that is true, but "date" is very much a human/legal fiction. Someone could be born before you, yet you have an earlier birthdate than them.

Gibbon1 8y ago

Law/Legal fact vs science or engining fact. They are really different things. Offtopic: One time the Cardinals of the Catholic Church couldn't come to an agreement over the next Pope. After a few months of that the Holy Roman Emperor or some such had workmen remove the roof and locked them inside. A day and a half later, new Pope!