4 ms·

Sorry guys. Between the CEO's doing whatever he did to lose the trust of the CTO (whose credibility this whole thing rests on), and the CTO having zero regard f

Sorry guys. Between the CEO's doing whatever he did to lose the trust of the CTO (whose credibility this whole thing rests on), and the CTO having zero regard for his customers and having the gall to tell us to install a new OS ourselves for our own safety after we paid him to offload the trouble of handling security for us, you get no more of my business. Obviously I'm an angry customer. But I want to be careful about what I post. So I'll add that I'm open to being shown that I'm wrong about any part of this.

TheCraiggers 8y ago
>CTO having zero regard for his customers and having the gall to tell us to install a new OS ourselves for our own safety I would not call that 'zero regard'. I would personally label it as having the utmost regard, as he was willing to stick his neck out there and do something that would obviously have negative repercussions to his career, etc. Were mistakes made? Yes, but that is normal. I personally haven't seen anything him do technology-wise or security-trustworthiness-wise that I've hated. Did he maybe trust the wrong guy or perhaps make some un-sound business decisions? Apparently. But that's not why I'm interested in his project.
- orblivion 8y ago
  He had the utmost regard for his craft, which I respect and gives him a lot of credibility there. And as such I sympathized with him initially. I also resent the idea of business interests leading to cutting corners in security (assuming that's what happened here). But I don't recall any apology from him (though I do recall one from the CEO). It's been a while, but I don't recall him going out of his way to provide hand-holding instructions on installing the next best thing available that he recommends, which I would expect as a _customer_. Whatever happened, whose ever "fault" it is, it's the responsibility of the company to serve the customer, not throw your hands up and say "Well I guess I can't do this anymore. You should do this instead now.". Resentment aside, if he were working for a company in a technical capacity, I'd trust that company more. But I wouldn't trust a company with him in an executive position.
  - Crestwave 8y ago
    I'm not sure I get what you mean. If you're talking about Daniel Micay, if I remember correctly, what happened was that the CEO basically betrayed him and kicked him out of the company. He's not part of it anymore, and is now working on https://github.com/AndroidHardening https://github.com/AndroidHardening.
orblivion 8y ago
I wanted to note that the current CEO of CopperheadOS got wind of this message and reached out to me to see if we could sort things out. I don't expect we can, since the product is tied up in the former CTO's technical reputation. But so long as I've made an issue here about treatment as a customer, I wanted to say that I did appreciate him doing the right thing and at least reaching out to try.
strcat 8y ago
> CTO having zero regard for his customers and having the gall to tell us to install a new OS ourselves for our own safety after we paid him to offload the trouble of handling security for us, you get no more of my business. I continued development of the OS under the AndroidHardening name and it's available entirely for free as a permissively licensed open source project: https://github.com/GrapheneOS https://github.com/GrapheneOS It's not a product, and you don't have to pay anything for the replacement. If you have a 1st generation Pixel, that support isn't quite ready yet, but if it's a 2nd generation Pixel the successor has been around since December. I had no way to reach out to the users and customers once James had taken over, especially after he locked me out of my email account and stole the open source project's Twitter account by rolling back the email from danielmicay@gmail.com to daniel.micay@copperhead.co. He covered up what had happened and heavily misrepresented it. You seem to believe a bit too much of what you were told by them. If you wanted help installing another OS, you just had to contact me. I often walk people through stuff like this. I'm perfectly willing to do that. It took time to rebuild things, so there wasn't immediately a direct replacement. The infrastructure was all taken over, donations to the project were stolen and this all happened right before Android Pie was released which required a major migration to get it done within a week or so of release to continue releasing full security updates for Pixels. What exactly was I supposed to do when there was an attempt to take over the project? It was not going to be possible to ever release a non-compromised update again due to loss of the infrastructure, and a complete betrayal by the company that had agreed to support the project while agreeing that I would own and control it. The project would never have had any use for the signing keys again. They were entirely a liability. They obviously weren't going to be turned over to the corrupt company and you see for yourself that they did have not even provided full security updates for almost an entire year and misrepresented that fact to their users. It's a scam now, without any actual work on privacy / security and is simply based on stolen legacy code under a license they don't have permission to use.

TheCraiggers 8y ago

>CTO having zero regard for his customers and having the gall to tell us to install a new OS ourselves for our own safety I would not call that 'zero regard'. I would personally label it as having the utmost regard, as he was willing to stick his neck out there and do something that would obviously have negative repercussions to his career, etc. Were mistakes made? Yes, but that is normal. I personally haven't seen anything him do technology-wise or security-trustworthiness-wise that I've hated. Did he maybe trust the wrong guy or perhaps make some un-sound business decisions? Apparently. But that's not why I'm interested in his project.

orblivion 8y ago
He had the utmost regard for his craft, which I respect and gives him a lot of credibility there. And as such I sympathized with him initially. I also resent the idea of business interests leading to cutting corners in security (assuming that's what happened here). But I don't recall any apology from him (though I do recall one from the CEO). It's been a while, but I don't recall him going out of his way to provide hand-holding instructions on installing the next best thing available that he recommends, which I would expect as a _customer_. Whatever happened, whose ever "fault" it is, it's the responsibility of the company to serve the customer, not throw your hands up and say "Well I guess I can't do this anymore. You should do this instead now.". Resentment aside, if he were working for a company in a technical capacity, I'd trust that company more. But I wouldn't trust a company with him in an executive position.
- Crestwave 8y ago
  I'm not sure I get what you mean. If you're talking about Daniel Micay, if I remember correctly, what happened was that the CEO basically betrayed him and kicked him out of the company. He's not part of it anymore, and is now working on https://github.com/AndroidHardening https://github.com/AndroidHardening.

orblivion 8y ago

I wanted to note that the current CEO of CopperheadOS got wind of this message and reached out to me to see if we could sort things out. I don't expect we can, since the product is tied up in the former CTO's technical reputation. But so long as I've made an issue here about treatment as a customer, I wanted to say that I did appreciate him doing the right thing and at least reaching out to try.

strcat 8y ago

> CTO having zero regard for his customers and having the gall to tell us to install a new OS ourselves for our own safety after we paid him to offload the trouble of handling security for us, you get no more of my business. I continued development of the OS under the AndroidHardening name and it's available entirely for free as a permissively licensed open source project: https://github.com/GrapheneOS https://github.com/GrapheneOS It's not a product, and you don't have to pay anything for the replacement. If you have a 1st generation Pixel, that support isn't quite ready yet, but if it's a 2nd generation Pixel the successor has been around since December. I had no way to reach out to the users and customers once James had taken over, especially after he locked me out of my email account and stole the open source project's Twitter account by rolling back the email from danielmicay@gmail.com to daniel.micay@copperhead.co. He covered up what had happened and heavily misrepresented it. You seem to believe a bit too much of what you were told by them. If you wanted help installing another OS, you just had to contact me. I often walk people through stuff like this. I'm perfectly willing to do that. It took time to rebuild things, so there wasn't immediately a direct replacement. The infrastructure was all taken over, donations to the project were stolen and this all happened right before Android Pie was released which required a major migration to get it done within a week or so of release to continue releasing full security updates for Pixels. What exactly was I supposed to do when there was an attempt to take over the project? It was not going to be possible to ever release a non-compromised update again due to loss of the infrastructure, and a complete betrayal by the company that had agreed to support the project while agreeing that I would own and control it. The project would never have had any use for the signing keys again. They were entirely a liability. They obviously weren't going to be turned over to the corrupt company and you see for yourself that they did have not even provided full security updates for almost an entire year and misrepresented that fact to their users. It's a scam now, without any actual work on privacy / security and is simply based on stolen legacy code under a license they don't have permission to use.