6 ms·

As someone on the left and someone who has actively participated in multiple socialist parties in the US for years, the opposition to UBI from the left (DemSocs

As someone on the left and someone who has actively participated in multiple socialist parties in the US for years, the opposition to UBI from the left (DemSocs, Marxist-Leninists, various flavors of anarchists) is because we see it as a way for the ruling class to gut social programs instead of supplement them. The idea of "guaranteed income" argued for by people like MLK was a way to abolish poverty forever. Here's some MLK quotes on it from his book Where Do We Go From Here: https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd060fd5314 https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd...

burfog 8y ago
Well, that's part of the deal if UBI is ever to get off the ground. Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right. The left wants the UBI, and the right wants to get rid of government bureaucrats. The left gives up on the government bureaucrats ("gut social programs") and the right gives up on tossing out all forms of welfare. Of course, both sides are motivated to break the truce. You just admitted that in fact, wanting to not "gut social programs". Enforcing the truce doesn't seem possible.
- cazum 8y ago
  Well, one obvious solution there is to simply accept no compromise and vote the right and corporations completely out of power.
  - orthecreedence 8y ago
    Haha, good one. As if our entire government isn't a captured agency at this point.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right. No, it's not, or at least not by most people who back UBI. There are people who back forms of it on the Left, and people who back forms of it on the Right, and, sure, it's conceivable that one way it might pass is an alliance between those two that involves some compromise, but it's just as plausible that it would get implemented, if at all, by a Right- or Left-leaning governing coalition in a compromise between UBI-favoring elements and others from the same side of the spectrum.
- rhizome 8y ago
  Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right By whom? There is nothing outlandish about implementing UBI without gutting every other aspect of the social safety net, it's just that the interests against it want their pound of flesh in exchange for any increase in social services. For instance, all of this could be paid for with a tiny portion of the US defense budget.
uxp100 8y ago
I do understand that, but I have also heard things from supposed leftists like "Oh, everyone's rent will go up by $1000." This says less about leftist movements than the people I talk to.

burfog 8y ago

Well, that's part of the deal if UBI is ever to get off the ground. Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right. The left wants the UBI, and the right wants to get rid of government bureaucrats. The left gives up on the government bureaucrats ("gut social programs") and the right gives up on tossing out all forms of welfare. Of course, both sides are motivated to break the truce. You just admitted that in fact, wanting to not "gut social programs". Enforcing the truce doesn't seem possible.

cazum 8y ago
Well, one obvious solution there is to simply accept no compromise and vote the right and corporations completely out of power.
- orthecreedence 8y ago
  Haha, good one. As if our entire government isn't a captured agency at this point.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right. No, it's not, or at least not by most people who back UBI. There are people who back forms of it on the Left, and people who back forms of it on the Right, and, sure, it's conceivable that one way it might pass is an alliance between those two that involves some compromise, but it's just as plausible that it would get implemented, if at all, by a Right- or Left-leaning governing coalition in a compromise between UBI-favoring elements and others from the same side of the spectrum.
rhizome 8y ago
Normally UBI is considered to be sort of a truce between the left and the right By whom? There is nothing outlandish about implementing UBI without gutting every other aspect of the social safety net, it's just that the interests against it want their pound of flesh in exchange for any increase in social services. For instance, all of this could be paid for with a tiny portion of the US defense budget.

uxp100 8y ago

I do understand that, but I have also heard things from supposed leftists like "Oh, everyone's rent will go up by $1000." This says less about leftist movements than the people I talk to.