5 ms·

Honestly, they only upside of an open office is economic. When you have empty offices in the building, putting up with it really makes no sense. Basecamp actua

by zzaner 8y ago

Honestly, they only upside of an open office is economic. When you have empty offices in the building, putting up with it really makes no sense. Basecamp actually designed their office around "library rules": https://m.signalvnoise.com/library-rules-how-to-make-an-open-office-plan-work/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/library-rules-how-to-make-an-open...

jdsully 8y ago
That office is mostly empty space, and with all the effort to noise damp one has to ask - why bother? Just add offices at that point. At Microsoft you could always chat in the halls and people would just close their doors.
- MagnificRogue 8y ago
  Now everything is moving to open office or has already moved :(, I envy the people that still have their own office.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    I've noticed it's usually the management.
    - nathanaldensr 8y ago
      They tend to say "Well, you know I have to occasionally participate in super-secret phone calls," which we all know is an excuse.
- TheTruth1234 8y ago
  Did you read the part about 'Library Rules'? It's a cultural leap, but that would make all the difference. Christ, I'm sitting in an open plan office right now with two telephone conversations going on in my right ear. Thank the hardware overlords for headphones ...
  - Macross8299 8y ago
    Yeah, I wonder how much of the disdain for open offices is more of a company culture issue rather a problem with open offices. What causes people to whisper in libraries but talk loudly and disturb others in an open office plan? Perhaps some segmentation of open office plans would also be interesting -- a "loud" zone, a semi-quiet zone and a silent zone. I don't know how workable this would be for teams unless you had hot-desking, which is something else people seem to hate, but still. Engineers who need to work on a difficult problem for a while can use the silent zone, while groups who need lots of communication and the perennial extroverts are free to use the louder spaces.
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    That office plan, and 'Library Rules', are particularly stupid in a world of lack of thought. That is, it's worse than just not thinking about it at all. 3-5 people in the office at any given day? Just build offices, christ. One of the founders must have had a particular itch to scratch is all, and it has cost the company money so that they could have the worst of all worlds The 'Library Rules' are dumb because one of the prime reasons you need to make noise in an open office is to share a screen with someone, as you collaborate or problem solve or whatever. This is hard to do if you have to move to a quiet room because you can't move your monitor setup with you, or have the comfort and access of the things at your desk. Even non-code discussions are easier at your own desk, with kbd and mouse for notes vs laptop and trackpad. Not being able to talk above a whisper, or at all, at your own desk is a disaster.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I mostly work remote these days but "library rules" in anything but a limited area is silly. If I'm in the office, I have phone calls to participate in and people I want to chat with. If I want to have an extended conversation with someone, I'll (try to) find an alcove but there is zero point to my being in the office if I have to go somewhere private every time I open my mouth.
      - TheTruth1234 8y ago
howard941 8y ago
Even minimal noise damping would be awesome. We're in a big room in a bigger warehouse so add to the usual loud conversations a team of forklifts honking and beeping until 4PM every day.

by zzaner 8y ago

jdsully 8y ago

That office is mostly empty space, and with all the effort to noise damp one has to ask - why bother? Just add offices at that point. At Microsoft you could always chat in the halls and people would just close their doors.

MagnificRogue 8y ago
Now everything is moving to open office or has already moved :(, I envy the people that still have their own office.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  I've noticed it's usually the management.
  - nathanaldensr 8y ago
    They tend to say "Well, you know I have to occasionally participate in super-secret phone calls," which we all know is an excuse.
TheTruth1234 8y ago
Did you read the part about 'Library Rules'? It's a cultural leap, but that would make all the difference. Christ, I'm sitting in an open plan office right now with two telephone conversations going on in my right ear. Thank the hardware overlords for headphones ...
- Macross8299 8y ago
  Yeah, I wonder how much of the disdain for open offices is more of a company culture issue rather a problem with open offices. What causes people to whisper in libraries but talk loudly and disturb others in an open office plan? Perhaps some segmentation of open office plans would also be interesting -- a "loud" zone, a semi-quiet zone and a silent zone. I don't know how workable this would be for teams unless you had hot-desking, which is something else people seem to hate, but still. Engineers who need to work on a difficult problem for a while can use the silent zone, while groups who need lots of communication and the perennial extroverts are free to use the louder spaces.
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  That office plan, and 'Library Rules', are particularly stupid in a world of lack of thought. That is, it's worse than just not thinking about it at all. 3-5 people in the office at any given day? Just build offices, christ. One of the founders must have had a particular itch to scratch is all, and it has cost the company money so that they could have the worst of all worlds The 'Library Rules' are dumb because one of the prime reasons you need to make noise in an open office is to share a screen with someone, as you collaborate or problem solve or whatever. This is hard to do if you have to move to a quiet room because you can't move your monitor setup with you, or have the comfort and access of the things at your desk. Even non-code discussions are easier at your own desk, with kbd and mouse for notes vs laptop and trackpad. Not being able to talk above a whisper, or at all, at your own desk is a disaster.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I mostly work remote these days but "library rules" in anything but a limited area is silly. If I'm in the office, I have phone calls to participate in and people I want to chat with. If I want to have an extended conversation with someone, I'll (try to) find an alcove but there is zero point to my being in the office if I have to go somewhere private every time I open my mouth.
    - TheTruth1234 8y ago

howard941 8y ago

Even minimal noise damping would be awesome. We're in a big room in a bigger warehouse so add to the usual loud conversations a team of forklifts honking and beeping until 4PM every day.