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I wish I could be as optimistic as you are. I think Facebooks reach is just to big to actually force it to become good. Sure, you might make it change certain

by gyaniv 8y ago

I wish I could be as optimistic as you are. I think Facebooks reach is just to big to actually force it to become good. Sure, you might make it change certain practices, but at the end of the day, they would still find 'problematic' ways to develop their business. Other, similar companies as well (did someone say Google?)

jerf 8y ago
We tend to overestimate change in the short term and underestimate it in the long term. It's true that it'll probably take longer than we may like to resolve this situation, but in the end it'll probably be resolved more thoroughly and strongly than you'd have guessed. As it is, even just where we are with the HN gestalt's opinion would have been difficult to imagine two years ago. It's slow, but it's a very strong opinion change. Another couple of years and having Facebook on your resume may be a problem getting your next job, who knows.
- existencebox 8y ago
  While I agree with your over/underestimate statement, I unfortunately think you've got it backwards, where we're overestimating the change this pressure is going to lever on how our data is utilized in the short term, and underestimating the reversion to the mean. Next to companies like Palantir, AT&T(Room641A), Equifax, and hell, even credit card processors, I've always found the ire directed at Facebook to seem... scapegoatey? I'd observe that anger against those companies was quick to fade, and has not seemed to negatively impact employees to work for them, nor created a regulatory environment wherein that work isn't supported. (selfishly us-centric here) Hell, after the snowden revelations, did those with NSA/govt credentials have trouble getting a job? If that didn't move the needle (and I say this as someone who had been doing gov. funded research at the time, and would have liked to see a stronger response) I'm pessimistic that we'll ever see meaningful long term perceptual shifts in this respect outside of when they're driven by a media-cycle furor. (To address the root of this comment tree, I think the fad hasn't outlasted the media cycle, I think the media cycle has realized this topic continues to drive clicks for now) Simply, I worry a lack of privacy, and lack of accountability for corporations/govt, has largely become normalized; or at least that people are increasingly unlikely to act in this direction without heavy media pressure. I hope I'm wrong.

by gyaniv 8y ago

jerf 8y ago

We tend to overestimate change in the short term and underestimate it in the long term. It's true that it'll probably take longer than we may like to resolve this situation, but in the end it'll probably be resolved more thoroughly and strongly than you'd have guessed. As it is, even just where we are with the HN gestalt's opinion would have been difficult to imagine two years ago. It's slow, but it's a very strong opinion change. Another couple of years and having Facebook on your resume may be a problem getting your next job, who knows.

existencebox 8y ago
While I agree with your over/underestimate statement, I unfortunately think you've got it backwards, where we're overestimating the change this pressure is going to lever on how our data is utilized in the short term, and underestimating the reversion to the mean. Next to companies like Palantir, AT&T(Room641A), Equifax, and hell, even credit card processors, I've always found the ire directed at Facebook to seem... scapegoatey? I'd observe that anger against those companies was quick to fade, and has not seemed to negatively impact employees to work for them, nor created a regulatory environment wherein that work isn't supported. (selfishly us-centric here) Hell, after the snowden revelations, did those with NSA/govt credentials have trouble getting a job? If that didn't move the needle (and I say this as someone who had been doing gov. funded research at the time, and would have liked to see a stronger response) I'm pessimistic that we'll ever see meaningful long term perceptual shifts in this respect outside of when they're driven by a media-cycle furor. (To address the root of this comment tree, I think the fad hasn't outlasted the media cycle, I think the media cycle has realized this topic continues to drive clicks for now) Simply, I worry a lack of privacy, and lack of accountability for corporations/govt, has largely become normalized; or at least that people are increasingly unlikely to act in this direction without heavy media pressure. I hope I'm wrong.