4 ms·

> A kid gets killed by some stray buckshot, and they get a fine and increased insurance costs Killing someone in a car accident where you're to blame will resu

> A kid gets killed by some stray buckshot, and they get a fine and increased insurance costs Killing someone in a car accident where you're to blame will result in a suspended prison sentence at the very least. It's called vehicular manslaughter unless you were obeying the laws and what happened was not intentional or reasonably preventable. Like if someone falls out of a tree under your wheels. So the comparison doesn't stand.

CalRobert 8y ago
Drivers are rarely held to blame, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-cyclists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-t...
- close04 8y ago
  This doesn't seem to be my experience in most of Europe. Actually in some countries the driver might even be held responsible for cases when someone jumps in traffic from between cars parked on the side of a road. Edit, from the article: > there is something undeniably screwy about a justice system that makes it de facto legal to kill people, even when it is clearly your fault, as long you’re driving a car and the victim is on a bike and you’re not obviously drunk and don’t flee the scene If true it's actually shocking that any civilized country would have this system.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    I'd be curious where you are. In Ireland the legal system seems pretty accepting of dangerous drivers.
  - stevenwoo 8y ago
    A study in Australia found a sizeable percentage of car drivers do not believe cyclists to be full human beings. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2019/03/27/australian-study-some-car-drivers-say-bikers-aren-completely-human/pnZ779ml6nY53bduYwx8rI/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2019/03/27/australi...
    - waste_monk 8y ago
      As an Australian, I can confirm this. It's not necessarily their fault, but cyclists are extremely irritating for drivers, and an outright danger in some cases. Due to our road designs being mostly car-centric and our laws, it is hard to share the road with them. We are required to give 1 metre clearance when driving at < 60km/h, and 1.5m at 60km/h or over. If it is no other lane available and we cannot cross the dividing line due to oncoming traffic, we are forced to reduce our speed to that of the cyclist (which often means halving it or more) until we can overtake them safely. The government is attempting to retrofit bike lanes, but this does not remove the requirement to give space, and the lanes are co-located with parking spaces, which forces cyclists to move back onto the roads. This also leads to a lot of mirrors being damaged, mostly accidental but some cyclists brag about damaging cars that regularly park in the same place and block bike lanes. This leads to a lot of resentment from car owners. As an aside, cyclists are also allowed on our footpaths, and this has led to quite a lot of pedestrians being injured by cyclists colliding with them at speed. I could go on about this at length, but the point is that there is a considerable amount of frustration, resentment, and anger towards cyclists. One of the major bones of contention is the government refusing to require the registration of bicycles for road use (number plate) as it would discourage bicycle use, which would be at odds with the government promoting it for health benefits. But I know multiple people who've been injured or had there cars side-swiped by cyclists, and have no recourse due to being unable to identify them for a police report.
      - flukus 8y ago
        > If it is no other lane available and we cannot cross the dividing line due to oncoming traffic, we are forced to reduce our speed to that of the cyclist (which often means halving it or more) until we can overtake them safely. In most situations where you're actually likely to be going the speed limit the cyclists normally have a shoulder to ride on anyway. Other times motorists are just irrationally impatient to get to the next red light. > As an aside, cyclists are also allowed on our footpaths, and this has led to quite a lot of pedestrians being injured by cyclists colliding with them at speed. In most of the country they aren't allowed on footpaths, only in Qld and maybe a couple of others. And how many is plenty? There was one pedestrian killed by a collision with a cyclist in 2006 but 230 killed a year by cars (http://www.executivestyle.com.au/when-cyclist-and-pedestrian-worlds-collide-2e30t http://www.executivestyle.com.au/when-cyclist-and-pedestrian...) > The government is attempting to retrofit bike lanes, but this does not remove the requirement to give space, and the lanes are co-located with parking spaces, which forces cyclists to move back onto the roads. Cyclists aren't exactly fans of this either, I'm still waiting for a council to get sued into oblivion for creating these death traps.

CalRobert 8y ago

Drivers are rarely held to blame, though. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-cyclists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-t...

close04 8y ago
This doesn't seem to be my experience in most of Europe. Actually in some countries the driver might even be held responsible for cases when someone jumps in traffic from between cars parked on the side of a road. Edit, from the article: > there is something undeniably screwy about a justice system that makes it de facto legal to kill people, even when it is clearly your fault, as long you’re driving a car and the victim is on a bike and you’re not obviously drunk and don’t flee the scene If true it's actually shocking that any civilized country would have this system.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  I'd be curious where you are. In Ireland the legal system seems pretty accepting of dangerous drivers.
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  A study in Australia found a sizeable percentage of car drivers do not believe cyclists to be full human beings. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2019/03/27/australian-study-some-car-drivers-say-bikers-aren-completely-human/pnZ779ml6nY53bduYwx8rI/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2019/03/27/australi...
  - waste_monk 8y ago
    As an Australian, I can confirm this. It's not necessarily their fault, but cyclists are extremely irritating for drivers, and an outright danger in some cases. Due to our road designs being mostly car-centric and our laws, it is hard to share the road with them. We are required to give 1 metre clearance when driving at < 60km/h, and 1.5m at 60km/h or over. If it is no other lane available and we cannot cross the dividing line due to oncoming traffic, we are forced to reduce our speed to that of the cyclist (which often means halving it or more) until we can overtake them safely. The government is attempting to retrofit bike lanes, but this does not remove the requirement to give space, and the lanes are co-located with parking spaces, which forces cyclists to move back onto the roads. This also leads to a lot of mirrors being damaged, mostly accidental but some cyclists brag about damaging cars that regularly park in the same place and block bike lanes. This leads to a lot of resentment from car owners. As an aside, cyclists are also allowed on our footpaths, and this has led to quite a lot of pedestrians being injured by cyclists colliding with them at speed. I could go on about this at length, but the point is that there is a considerable amount of frustration, resentment, and anger towards cyclists. One of the major bones of contention is the government refusing to require the registration of bicycles for road use (number plate) as it would discourage bicycle use, which would be at odds with the government promoting it for health benefits. But I know multiple people who've been injured or had there cars side-swiped by cyclists, and have no recourse due to being unable to identify them for a police report.
    - flukus 8y ago
      > If it is no other lane available and we cannot cross the dividing line due to oncoming traffic, we are forced to reduce our speed to that of the cyclist (which often means halving it or more) until we can overtake them safely. In most situations where you're actually likely to be going the speed limit the cyclists normally have a shoulder to ride on anyway. Other times motorists are just irrationally impatient to get to the next red light. > As an aside, cyclists are also allowed on our footpaths, and this has led to quite a lot of pedestrians being injured by cyclists colliding with them at speed. In most of the country they aren't allowed on footpaths, only in Qld and maybe a couple of others. And how many is plenty? There was one pedestrian killed by a collision with a cyclist in 2006 but 230 killed a year by cars (http://www.executivestyle.com.au/when-cyclist-and-pedestrian-worlds-collide-2e30t http://www.executivestyle.com.au/when-cyclist-and-pedestrian...) > The government is attempting to retrofit bike lanes, but this does not remove the requirement to give space, and the lanes are co-located with parking spaces, which forces cyclists to move back onto the roads. Cyclists aren't exactly fans of this either, I'm still waiting for a council to get sued into oblivion for creating these death traps.