5 ms·

A truly American story, basically the only developed country in the world where you can be bankrupted from getting sick.

baud147258 8y ago
Huh? I'm pretty sure you can get bankrupted by illness in any country
- Illniyar 8y ago
  No, you can lose your job or means of making money in some countries, but you can't get bankrupted by paying for treatment in countries with universal healthcare (or even close to it). Most developed countries also have some measures of social security in cases where you lose your job so that even that is rare.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just for literally homeless people, other people aren't getting much, really (you will not get anything if you have a job). In other countries with universal healthcare, the law says that you will get only "medically necessary" treatment, amd everything else needs to be paid out of your pocket - and in these countries, no private insurance usually exists, so have fun with that. Another point is quality of hospitalization care, again - there are less than 5 countries in the world where you'd get the same thing as in the US. In other countries you will share room with 5 other people, and be aware that usually at least one family member per patient is always present. Treatments such as colonoscopy are done in your room, btw. There usually is just one male and one female toilet and shower per ~10 rooms, of course used by the family members as well. The food is literally uneatable 99% of the time, 1% of the time you're lucky and it's plain bread and tea (nothing to screw up on that). Prepare yourself to be screamed at regularly by doctors and nurses. Prepare yourself to be bellitled at every opportunity. And prepare yourself that your family members might die because noone listened to them, and the only compensation you can get is the sentence "well, that's just the system, the government really didn't want that" - correct, no monetary compensation, no fines, no prison. Did I mention that there is no way to go private other than paying out of pocket, and of course who would run a medical company in a country with universal healthcare? Source: my whole life in a "universal healthcare" country. Edit: Let the downvotes flow, I just stated my experience, definitely a downvote-worthy comment, lol. Dumbass me thought we would discuss. Seems interesting tho. Almost every time I write my experiences with universal healthcare, I'm immediatelly (within 5 minutes) heavily downvoted, without any discussion. Hard denial? Universal healthcare definitely helps pharma and medical companies (they can overprice a lot, just like with any other governmental project). Lobby?
    - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
      "In other countries with universal healthcare [...]" Not sure where you live or where you've been too, but you make some sweeping arguments about dozens of countries. Mostly everything you say is wrong about Germany (>65% taxation, no private insurance, share room with 5 people, treatments in your room, toilet not in the room, uneatable food, ...).
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        Germany is one of the five countries, and it has the lowest taxes among them. The rest are Austria and Scandinavian countries where total taxation rate approaches 70% all things factored in (I'm counting indirect taxes as well). Isn't it interesting that the best healthcare system in the world is entirely privatized, in Switzerland?
        lawlessone 8y ago
        >Isn't it interesting that the best healthcare system in the world is entirely privatized, in Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland They still have universal healthcare/ mandatory health insurance. I don't think the libertarian types would be too happy with that. and >Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans
        klohto 8y ago
        And Czechia? Slovakia? Poland?
        TomMarius 8y ago
        These are the ones I have 20 years of experience with. Want more stories? I have friends working in healthcare, you wouldn't believe what they say.
        toomanybeersies 8y ago
- Insanity 8y ago
  Not at all - socialist countries protect you from that. (Hence in many European countries, you would be fine, financially speaking).
- baud147258 8y ago
  I must have gotten downvoted by a bunch of American allowing in misery at the state of their healthcare, all the while ignoring the situation in other countries /s, because I guess I was wrong, apparently?
toomanybeersies 8y ago
It's just so mind boggling to me that there's people in the USA who are literally dying of cancer because they simply can't afford to pay for treatment, and there's a significant percentage of the population that think it's not only normal but entirely acceptable. The whole concept just seems so completely foreign to here in Australia. In contrast, I have a friend who immigrated to Australia about a year ago and isn't even on a permanent residency, but still gets full treatment for their cancer for free, just like any Australian citizen would. The very idea that your survival is entirely dictated by your financial circumstances sounds like it's straight out of some dystopian fiction to me. That was the entire plot of Elysium, wasn't it?

baud147258 8y ago

Huh? I'm pretty sure you can get bankrupted by illness in any country

Illniyar 8y ago
No, you can lose your job or means of making money in some countries, but you can't get bankrupted by paying for treatment in countries with universal healthcare (or even close to it). Most developed countries also have some measures of social security in cases where you lose your job so that even that is rare.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just for literally homeless people, other people aren't getting much, really (you will not get anything if you have a job). In other countries with universal healthcare, the law says that you will get only "medically necessary" treatment, amd everything else needs to be paid out of your pocket - and in these countries, no private insurance usually exists, so have fun with that. Another point is quality of hospitalization care, again - there are less than 5 countries in the world where you'd get the same thing as in the US. In other countries you will share room with 5 other people, and be aware that usually at least one family member per patient is always present. Treatments such as colonoscopy are done in your room, btw. There usually is just one male and one female toilet and shower per ~10 rooms, of course used by the family members as well. The food is literally uneatable 99% of the time, 1% of the time you're lucky and it's plain bread and tea (nothing to screw up on that). Prepare yourself to be screamed at regularly by doctors and nurses. Prepare yourself to be bellitled at every opportunity. And prepare yourself that your family members might die because noone listened to them, and the only compensation you can get is the sentence "well, that's just the system, the government really didn't want that" - correct, no monetary compensation, no fines, no prison. Did I mention that there is no way to go private other than paying out of pocket, and of course who would run a medical company in a country with universal healthcare? Source: my whole life in a "universal healthcare" country. Edit: Let the downvotes flow, I just stated my experience, definitely a downvote-worthy comment, lol. Dumbass me thought we would discuss. Seems interesting tho. Almost every time I write my experiences with universal healthcare, I'm immediatelly (within 5 minutes) heavily downvoted, without any discussion. Hard denial? Universal healthcare definitely helps pharma and medical companies (they can overprice a lot, just like with any other governmental project). Lobby?
  - _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
    "In other countries with universal healthcare [...]" Not sure where you live or where you've been too, but you make some sweeping arguments about dozens of countries. Mostly everything you say is wrong about Germany (>65% taxation, no private insurance, share room with 5 people, treatments in your room, toilet not in the room, uneatable food, ...).
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      Germany is one of the five countries, and it has the lowest taxes among them. The rest are Austria and Scandinavian countries where total taxation rate approaches 70% all things factored in (I'm counting indirect taxes as well). Isn't it interesting that the best healthcare system in the world is entirely privatized, in Switzerland?
      - lawlessone 8y ago
        >Isn't it interesting that the best healthcare system in the world is entirely privatized, in Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland They still have universal healthcare/ mandatory health insurance. I don't think the libertarian types would be too happy with that. and >Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans
      - klohto 8y ago
        And Czechia? Slovakia? Poland?
        TomMarius 8y ago
        These are the ones I have 20 years of experience with. Want more stories? I have friends working in healthcare, you wouldn't believe what they say.
      - toomanybeersies 8y ago
Insanity 8y ago
Not at all - socialist countries protect you from that. (Hence in many European countries, you would be fine, financially speaking).
baud147258 8y ago
I must have gotten downvoted by a bunch of American allowing in misery at the state of their healthcare, all the while ignoring the situation in other countries /s, because I guess I was wrong, apparently?

toomanybeersies 8y ago

It's just so mind boggling to me that there's people in the USA who are literally dying of cancer because they simply can't afford to pay for treatment, and there's a significant percentage of the population that think it's not only normal but entirely acceptable. The whole concept just seems so completely foreign to here in Australia. In contrast, I have a friend who immigrated to Australia about a year ago and isn't even on a permanent residency, but still gets full treatment for their cancer for free, just like any Australian citizen would. The very idea that your survival is entirely dictated by your financial circumstances sounds like it's straight out of some dystopian fiction to me. That was the entire plot of Elysium, wasn't it?