5 ms·

India test its first anti-satellite missile system

45 points by khrm 8y ago

anjanb 8y ago
This is great news! Was hoping India wouldn't go this route -- but I guess reality is different from the hope world.
hackerbabz 8y ago
What is the effect of this on space debris? It mentioned 'low orbit'. Is it low enough that the debris will drop out or has this increased the danger of Kessler Syndrome?
- sanatgersappa 8y ago
  This was an orbit of 300km. Low enough to burn without continued acceleration. I'm guessing that when you're under attack and the attacker is using a satellite above to attack you, debris resulting from its destruction is not a pressing concern.
  - hackerbabz 8y ago
    This is how a regional conflict ends up destroying humanity.
    - kuzehanka 8y ago
      To elaborate, even a minor conflict in orbit runs a high risk of causing a chain reaction which turns most satellites into a cloud of orbital velocity debris. This cloud will make it impossible for any spacecraft to operate beyond that altitude for hundreds of years. We will have confined ourselves to this planet. Even with the current situation which is infinitely better than what post-conflict would look like, avoidance of debris is a major concern when planning space missions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
      - sanatgersappa 8y ago
        As per this report, it was a "kinetic kill", which means no explosives were used - the satellite was slammed into https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mission-shakti-asat-missile-project-went-into-mission-mode-6-months-ago-says-drdo-chief/story-oZROs7ULiJ9Zr6kL20j1lM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mission-shakti-asa...
        kuzehanka 8y ago
        And what do you think happens when two objects slam into each other at orbital speeds? The entire premise of an ablation cascade is a series of kinetic collisions.
saagarjha 8y ago
Kind of disappointing considering India's general rhetoric of "peaceful space exploration". Regardless of what they say, it's basically impossible to use an ASAT weapon for anything peaceful :/
- rudiv 8y ago
  Jingoism is in the air nowadays. And in the water, and the dal, and the achar.
- sanatgersappa 8y ago
  I wonder if developing a "defence capability" constitutes a violation of peaceful purpose. India lives in a bad neighborhood with unstable actors. Also, expecting it not to develop this capability when some others have, is not very realistic - more so when those others are unreliable at best and belligerent at worst.
  - johnchristopher 8y ago
    According to Russia it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system
- fit2rule 8y ago
  "Rogue/terrorist satellite goes out of control, threatens territorial sovereignty of India (or its friendly neighbours). It'll do some harm if it comes down over India, so: swish-BOOM! Industrial catastrophe averted, problem solved. Thanks, well-maintained military!" I mean, its not basically impossible. Unlikely, thankfully! (or .. maybe .. not, hmm...)
rudiv 8y ago
Nothing like election season to increase the pace of governance. Although the model code of conduct is in effect so presumably this was planned before the ECI announced the dates of the polls.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  Code of conduct doesn't apply to national security issues.[1] 1. https://m.economictimes.com/news/elections/lok-sabha/india/issues-of-national-security-do-not-fall-under-poll-code-ambit-ec-sources/articleshow/68595394.cms https://m.economictimes.com/news/elections/lok-sabha/india/i...
proy24 8y ago
and next we'll see this spiral into another mini space race as Pakistan "independently obtains" this capability courtesy of China and whatever technology Pakistan acquires proliferates to regimes and groups you'd least want those tech to end up with..
- sebazzz 8y ago
  We handle space just as well as we do with Earth. Space however almost doesn't recover on its own. Those tiny particles are too light and are going too fast to drop down to earth. If we cannot clean it up, we have a problem. Satellites are an essential part of our society.
superasn 8y ago
The cynic in me thinks that everything being said and done right now is because of upcoming elections. I started thinking like this after I learned the whole demonetization fiasco was just to win the UP elections. Nonetheless it does feel better that India is doing something about upgrading its defence with the recent happenings in doklam and pulwama.
- godelmachine 8y ago
  Well, I would like to contest that claim. Taken from Wikipedia, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon - >>On February 10, 2010, Defence Research and Development Organisation Director-General and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, Dr VK Saraswat stated that India had "all the building blocks necessary" to integrate an anti-satellite weapon to neutralize hostile satellites in low earth and polar orbits. Indian scientists were working in this since at least 2010, and this mission has bore fruition only when it was to. Demonetization was totally current PM’s decision, but the successful testing of A-SAT was in the making since at least a decade.
  - sbmthakur 8y ago
    Yes. It seems that this could've been done as early as 2012. But the then government didn't give a go ahead[1]. 1. https://archive.indianexpress.com/news/can-show-antisatellite-capability-if-govt-gives-nod-drdo-chief/939594/ https://archive.indianexpress.com/news/can-show-antisatellit...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  > The cynic in me thinks that everything being said and done right now is because of upcoming elections. I started thinking like this after I learned the whole demonetization fiasco was just to win the UP elections. You are obviously free to think whatever you want but that's still a speculation.
sbmthakur 8y ago
More details here: 1. https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what-is-mission-shakti-and-why-it-is-path-breaking-1553674516291.html https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what-is-mission-shakti-a... 2. https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/explained-mission-shakti-and-anti-satellite-missile-fired-by-india/story-DQfgOXo9oz5gnOgFgyyRiJ.html https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/explained-mission-sh...
tibbydudeza 8y ago
Well after the embarrasment near the LoC when they sent Mig 21's against modern F16's/JF-17's they needed some positive press.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  What embarrassment? IAF uses what's present in their inventory and that includes MiG 21s.
  - neximo64 8y ago
    That's what is embarrassing. Even more so that is what was used in combat.
anuraj 8y ago
This is just an election gimmick from india’s Megalomaniac PM Modi. Neither very important nor actually achieved during his tenure.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  Wow. Could you expound on why having a tech that targets satellites in space is "not important" and is merely "an election gimmick"?
  - anuraj 8y ago
    Once you technically solved the problem of sending satellites to orbit using a rocket - you already have the wherewithal to target them as well. ISRO achieved this eons ago. Apart from boasting rights - nobody can really use this for fear of reprimand from UN and world powers. The gist is - don't make space your arena of war - future generations will not pardon you!
- quantummkv 8y ago
  I am sorry to inform you my friend that work on this project began before Modi became the PM. Please do not insult the hard work of our scientists to fulfill your political fantasies.

45 points by khrm 8y ago

This is great news! Was hoping India wouldn't go this route -- but I guess reality is different from the hope world.

What is the effect of this on space debris? It mentioned 'low orbit'. Is it low enough that the debris will drop out or has this increased the danger of Kessler Syndrome?

sanatgersappa 8y ago
This was an orbit of 300km. Low enough to burn without continued acceleration. I'm guessing that when you're under attack and the attacker is using a satellite above to attack you, debris resulting from its destruction is not a pressing concern.
- hackerbabz 8y ago
  This is how a regional conflict ends up destroying humanity.
  - kuzehanka 8y ago
    To elaborate, even a minor conflict in orbit runs a high risk of causing a chain reaction which turns most satellites into a cloud of orbital velocity debris. This cloud will make it impossible for any spacecraft to operate beyond that altitude for hundreds of years. We will have confined ourselves to this planet. Even with the current situation which is infinitely better than what post-conflict would look like, avoidance of debris is a major concern when planning space missions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
    - sanatgersappa 8y ago
      As per this report, it was a "kinetic kill", which means no explosives were used - the satellite was slammed into https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mission-shakti-asat-missile-project-went-into-mission-mode-6-months-ago-says-drdo-chief/story-oZROs7ULiJ9Zr6kL20j1lM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mission-shakti-asa...
      - kuzehanka 8y ago
        And what do you think happens when two objects slam into each other at orbital speeds? The entire premise of an ablation cascade is a series of kinetic collisions.

saagarjha 8y ago

Kind of disappointing considering India's general rhetoric of "peaceful space exploration". Regardless of what they say, it's basically impossible to use an ASAT weapon for anything peaceful :/

rudiv 8y ago
Jingoism is in the air nowadays. And in the water, and the dal, and the achar.
sanatgersappa 8y ago
I wonder if developing a "defence capability" constitutes a violation of peaceful purpose. India lives in a bad neighborhood with unstable actors. Also, expecting it not to develop this capability when some others have, is not very realistic - more so when those others are unreliable at best and belligerent at worst.
- johnchristopher 8y ago
  According to Russia it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system
fit2rule 8y ago
"Rogue/terrorist satellite goes out of control, threatens territorial sovereignty of India (or its friendly neighbours). It'll do some harm if it comes down over India, so: swish-BOOM! Industrial catastrophe averted, problem solved. Thanks, well-maintained military!" I mean, its not basically impossible. Unlikely, thankfully! (or .. maybe .. not, hmm...)

rudiv 8y ago

Nothing like election season to increase the pace of governance. Although the model code of conduct is in effect so presumably this was planned before the ECI announced the dates of the polls.

sbmthakur 8y ago
Code of conduct doesn't apply to national security issues.[1] 1. https://m.economictimes.com/news/elections/lok-sabha/india/issues-of-national-security-do-not-fall-under-poll-code-ambit-ec-sources/articleshow/68595394.cms https://m.economictimes.com/news/elections/lok-sabha/india/i...

proy24 8y ago

and next we'll see this spiral into another mini space race as Pakistan "independently obtains" this capability courtesy of China and whatever technology Pakistan acquires proliferates to regimes and groups you'd least want those tech to end up with..

sebazzz 8y ago
We handle space just as well as we do with Earth. Space however almost doesn't recover on its own. Those tiny particles are too light and are going too fast to drop down to earth. If we cannot clean it up, we have a problem. Satellites are an essential part of our society.

superasn 8y ago

The cynic in me thinks that everything being said and done right now is because of upcoming elections. I started thinking like this after I learned the whole demonetization fiasco was just to win the UP elections. Nonetheless it does feel better that India is doing something about upgrading its defence with the recent happenings in doklam and pulwama.

godelmachine 8y ago
Well, I would like to contest that claim. Taken from Wikipedia, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon - >>On February 10, 2010, Defence Research and Development Organisation Director-General and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, Dr VK Saraswat stated that India had "all the building blocks necessary" to integrate an anti-satellite weapon to neutralize hostile satellites in low earth and polar orbits. Indian scientists were working in this since at least 2010, and this mission has bore fruition only when it was to. Demonetization was totally current PM’s decision, but the successful testing of A-SAT was in the making since at least a decade.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  Yes. It seems that this could've been done as early as 2012. But the then government didn't give a go ahead[1]. 1. https://archive.indianexpress.com/news/can-show-antisatellite-capability-if-govt-gives-nod-drdo-chief/939594/ https://archive.indianexpress.com/news/can-show-antisatellit...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
sbmthakur 8y ago
> The cynic in me thinks that everything being said and done right now is because of upcoming elections. I started thinking like this after I learned the whole demonetization fiasco was just to win the UP elections. You are obviously free to think whatever you want but that's still a speculation.

sbmthakur 8y ago

More details here: 1. https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what-is-mission-shakti-and-why-it-is-path-breaking-1553674516291.html https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what-is-mission-shakti-a... 2. https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/explained-mission-shakti-and-anti-satellite-missile-fired-by-india/story-DQfgOXo9oz5gnOgFgyyRiJ.html https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/explained-mission-sh...

tibbydudeza 8y ago

Well after the embarrasment near the LoC when they sent Mig 21's against modern F16's/JF-17's they needed some positive press.

sbmthakur 8y ago
What embarrassment? IAF uses what's present in their inventory and that includes MiG 21s.
- neximo64 8y ago
  That's what is embarrassing. Even more so that is what was used in combat.

anuraj 8y ago

This is just an election gimmick from india’s Megalomaniac PM Modi. Neither very important nor actually achieved during his tenure.

sbmthakur 8y ago
Wow. Could you expound on why having a tech that targets satellites in space is "not important" and is merely "an election gimmick"?
- anuraj 8y ago
  Once you technically solved the problem of sending satellites to orbit using a rocket - you already have the wherewithal to target them as well. ISRO achieved this eons ago. Apart from boasting rights - nobody can really use this for fear of reprimand from UN and world powers. The gist is - don't make space your arena of war - future generations will not pardon you!
quantummkv 8y ago
I am sorry to inform you my friend that work on this project began before Modi became the PM. Please do not insult the hard work of our scientists to fulfill your political fantasies.