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I'm sure Pyongyang also has very little cycling. Eritrea and North Korea regularly vie for the bottom spot on human rights rankings. That this article tries to

I'm sure Pyongyang also has very little cycling. Eritrea and North Korea regularly vie for the bottom spot on human rights rankings. That this article tries to pass it off as "diplomatic isolation" is a whitewash and a travesty.

JimmyAustin 8y ago
For reference: - Eritrea has mandatory indefinite military conscription. - All local media is state-owned. The Eritrean authorities have reportedly imprisoned the fourth highest number of imprisoned journalists in the world behind China, Egypt and Turkey. - Since independence in 1993, Eritrea has not had a national election.
thedailymail 8y ago
By the second paragraph, when the authors (one an anthropologist!) write: "Locals lament the departure of great numbers of young Eritreans who have left over the last 20 years because of hardships brought by regional conflicts and enforced national service under a government that brooks little dissent" I started thinking that maybe "heaven" is a poor choice of words.
- benj111 8y ago
  Is (was) Cuba a heaven for 1950s American cars? I would say that's a legitimate label.
Carpetsmoker 8y ago
This article is about highlighting that you can organize a city of 500,000 people without a car-dominated infrastructure (and all the problems that brings). Not every article needs to be about everything.
- GhostVII 8y ago
  How has this article highlighted that though? Eritrea is clearly not functioning very well, and is quite poor, so I don't think it is something we should hold up as an example of how a city can be organized.
  - djtriptych 8y ago
    Cars: - are energy hogs - are loud - are extremely dangerous - require up to 50% of city land to operate.
    - close04 8y ago
      > require up to 50% of city land to operate Where is this number coming from and what does it apply to exactly? It sounds like something that might be realistic in the US but probably not in most other parts of the world.
      - djtriptych 8y ago
        Tried to be careful with "up to". LA's city center has been measured at 59%. I'll try to find the source again. But just consider: - roads - highways / major ingress/egress - sidewalks (yup. Don't really need them without cars) - parking lots & garages A nice source with color-coded maps - http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2011/12/we-are-25-looking-at-street-area.html http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2011/12/we-are-25-looking-at... A nice survey/writeup from Vox: https://www.vox.com/a/new-economy-future/cars-cities-technologies https://www.vox.com/a/new-economy-future/cars-cities-technol...
        close04 8y ago
        Those are the links are found also before concluding it must be mostly a US thing. I was actually surprised about this. In Europe there far less space dedicated to cars.
    - notahacker 8y ago
      Nobody disputes that road vehicles have downsides On the other hand it is disputed that the impoverished and economically isolated city of Asmara having barely any cars is a demonstration that a city functions well with virtually no access to private motorised transport and inadequate public transport. (cf Groningen had a policy of actively removing roads in favour of cycle paths to achieve high cycle use, achieved very high cycle use whilst remaining a typically prosperous mid-sized northern European city. Asmara might be interesting as a human interest story, but if you want to make arguments about the superfluity of powered road vehicles you'd probably be best citing just about anywhere else... except possibly Yangon)
- azernik 8y ago
  The only way to do that seems to be mass emigration a la Eritrea, leaving a city larger than its population needs; or central planning that builds infrastructure for show rather than actual need, like North Korea.
nwatson 8y ago
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/cycling-around-pyongyang/ https://www.youngpioneertours.com/cycling-around-pyongyang/ ... discusses biking culture in North Korea and domestic-bike only policy, with NK-made bikes being good enough.

JimmyAustin 8y ago

For reference: - Eritrea has mandatory indefinite military conscription. - All local media is state-owned. The Eritrean authorities have reportedly imprisoned the fourth highest number of imprisoned journalists in the world behind China, Egypt and Turkey. - Since independence in 1993, Eritrea has not had a national election.

thedailymail 8y ago

By the second paragraph, when the authors (one an anthropologist!) write: "Locals lament the departure of great numbers of young Eritreans who have left over the last 20 years because of hardships brought by regional conflicts and enforced national service under a government that brooks little dissent" I started thinking that maybe "heaven" is a poor choice of words.

benj111 8y ago
Is (was) Cuba a heaven for 1950s American cars? I would say that's a legitimate label.

Carpetsmoker 8y ago

This article is about highlighting that you can organize a city of 500,000 people without a car-dominated infrastructure (and all the problems that brings). Not every article needs to be about everything.

GhostVII 8y ago
How has this article highlighted that though? Eritrea is clearly not functioning very well, and is quite poor, so I don't think it is something we should hold up as an example of how a city can be organized.
- djtriptych 8y ago
  Cars: - are energy hogs - are loud - are extremely dangerous - require up to 50% of city land to operate.
  - close04 8y ago
    > require up to 50% of city land to operate Where is this number coming from and what does it apply to exactly? It sounds like something that might be realistic in the US but probably not in most other parts of the world.
    - djtriptych 8y ago
      Tried to be careful with "up to". LA's city center has been measured at 59%. I'll try to find the source again. But just consider: - roads - highways / major ingress/egress - sidewalks (yup. Don't really need them without cars) - parking lots & garages A nice source with color-coded maps - http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2011/12/we-are-25-looking-at-street-area.html http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2011/12/we-are-25-looking-at... A nice survey/writeup from Vox: https://www.vox.com/a/new-economy-future/cars-cities-technologies https://www.vox.com/a/new-economy-future/cars-cities-technol...
      - close04 8y ago
        Those are the links are found also before concluding it must be mostly a US thing. I was actually surprised about this. In Europe there far less space dedicated to cars.
  - notahacker 8y ago
    Nobody disputes that road vehicles have downsides On the other hand it is disputed that the impoverished and economically isolated city of Asmara having barely any cars is a demonstration that a city functions well with virtually no access to private motorised transport and inadequate public transport. (cf Groningen had a policy of actively removing roads in favour of cycle paths to achieve high cycle use, achieved very high cycle use whilst remaining a typically prosperous mid-sized northern European city. Asmara might be interesting as a human interest story, but if you want to make arguments about the superfluity of powered road vehicles you'd probably be best citing just about anywhere else... except possibly Yangon)
azernik 8y ago
The only way to do that seems to be mass emigration a la Eritrea, leaving a city larger than its population needs; or central planning that builds infrastructure for show rather than actual need, like North Korea.

nwatson 8y ago

https://www.youngpioneertours.com/cycling-around-pyongyang/ https://www.youngpioneertours.com/cycling-around-pyongyang/ ... discusses biking culture in North Korea and domestic-bike only policy, with NK-made bikes being good enough.