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Legal rights are things that society decides you're entitled to. Natural rights are basically theological in origin. Violating them transgresses the natural law

by yepguy 8y ago

Legal rights are things that society decides you're entitled to. Natural rights are basically theological in origin. Violating them transgresses the natural law regardless of what society decides (or even whether society exists, I guess). It seems you're only considering legal rights, possibly because natural rights are difficult to justify from a secular perspective.

ericd 8y ago
The secular version of those "natural rights" is probably that they're ideas that are baked into most peoples' sense of morality by evolution.
Frondo 8y ago
I'm not actually trying to distinguish at all -- the OP spoke of rights stemming from nature, and, as you said, any you'd describe as such are basically theological in nature. The thought experiment I'd run is, just like the one of science vs religion: start from scratch, look for the rights that every society has in common. Property? Nope. Freedom of speech, association, whatever? Nope. The one I think might be universal would be the right to marry someone; I can't think of ever reading about a society where the right to marry and start a family was not a part of it. (Which we also don't really recognize as an explicit right anywhere in modern society, do we?)
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I can't think of ever reading about a society where the right to marry and start a family was not a part of it There are societies (studied by ethnologists) that don't marry -- the children are raised by the community.
  - Frondo 8y ago
    Wow! That's pretty interesting. Do you happen to remember the names of any? And maybe there isn't anything universal to societies that's considered as "right". Sort of opposite -- things forbidden -- I've heard from some biologist that the only universally forbidden behavior (no society has ever generally permitted it) is incestuous relationships. Everything else, you'd find some society somewhere that's okay with it. That makes sense from a biological perspective, too, that we as a species would be hard-wired not to allow it. That might be as close as an "in nature" thing as you might find, something our brains are hard-wired to discourage.
- anoncake 8y ago
  Serfs had to ask their lord for permission to marry.

by yepguy 8y ago

ericd 8y ago

The secular version of those "natural rights" is probably that they're ideas that are baked into most peoples' sense of morality by evolution.

Frondo 8y ago

I'm not actually trying to distinguish at all -- the OP spoke of rights stemming from nature, and, as you said, any you'd describe as such are basically theological in nature. The thought experiment I'd run is, just like the one of science vs religion: start from scratch, look for the rights that every society has in common. Property? Nope. Freedom of speech, association, whatever? Nope. The one I think might be universal would be the right to marry someone; I can't think of ever reading about a society where the right to marry and start a family was not a part of it. (Which we also don't really recognize as an explicit right anywhere in modern society, do we?)

coldtea 8y ago
>I can't think of ever reading about a society where the right to marry and start a family was not a part of it There are societies (studied by ethnologists) that don't marry -- the children are raised by the community.
- Frondo 8y ago
  Wow! That's pretty interesting. Do you happen to remember the names of any? And maybe there isn't anything universal to societies that's considered as "right". Sort of opposite -- things forbidden -- I've heard from some biologist that the only universally forbidden behavior (no society has ever generally permitted it) is incestuous relationships. Everything else, you'd find some society somewhere that's okay with it. That makes sense from a biological perspective, too, that we as a species would be hard-wired not to allow it. That might be as close as an "in nature" thing as you might find, something our brains are hard-wired to discourage.
anoncake 8y ago
Serfs had to ask their lord for permission to marry.