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- the way people navigate (Google Maps) - the way people get news (Google News) - the way people learn about their website (Google Analytics) - the way peopl

- the way people navigate (Google Maps) - the way people get news (Google News) - the way people learn about their website (Google Analytics) - the way people fight spam (reCaptcha)

minimaul 8y ago
All excellent additions. Others: - a major way of embedding web fonts (Google Fonts) - a hugely successful cloud document suite (Google Docs) - a safe browsing service, making them effective gatekeepers of what can load in Chrome (Google Safe Browsing) - an ever growing system for schools to manage assignments (Google Classroom) - this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young
- karussell 8y ago
  Never heard of Safe Browsing and Classroom (probably because I'm not using Chrome) but Docs and Fonts are definitely true! > this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young I'm not too concerned as many other big corporations (Apple, Microsoft) are fighting this ;)
  - propogandist 8y ago
    even if you're using firefox, it uses Google safebrowsing to check URLs you're visiting -- even sending your URL data to Google. The other corporations are only fighting small battles, but you can't compete with free, which is how Google gains its foothold.
    - jefftk 8y ago
      > even sending your URL data to Google "Each site you visit is checked against the Safe Browsing list on your system. If there's a match, your browser sends Google a hashed, partial copy of the site’s URL so that Google can send more information to your browser. Google cannot determine the real URL from this information." -- https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/#safe-browsing-practices https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/#safe-browsing... There's no way Firefox would be ok with sending all their user's visited URLs to Google. (Disclosure: I work at Google)
      - OJFord 8y ago
        +1 just for getting 'disclosure' right...
      - karussell 8y ago
        If it is a hash it could still see if a certain website was visited. Is this right? How do I disable this in Firefox? Is this the section about "Content Blocking"?
        jefftk 8y ago
        Firefox docs are on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing and offer a range of config knobs.
- asaddhamani 8y ago
  Also - One of the most popular ways for running surveys / forms (Google Forms)
arendtio 8y ago
And I thought reCaptcha was invented to torture and condition humans.
- dx034 8y ago
  Is there any alternative to reCaptcha? As I understand, it's the only system that works well against most spammers, is free to use and easy to integrate. I'd be happy to switch to another provider but haven't found anything remotely as easy and effective.
  - auslander 8y ago
    If you'd found such service, but it would be paid one, what price, per 1000 checks, would be ok for you?
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    Making your own works fine, even if it's a simple "type these words". On HN I see enough articles about breaking reCAPTCHAs with (claimed) 90% accuracy and I know spammers also employ humans. You can't make the perfect CAPTCHA, but anything custom will almost certainly do. For smaller sites it's also perfectly fine to just include a few "are you humans?" type questions to which people should reply "yes" or some other obvious answer. Having to spend development effort just to flood you with messages is probably not worth it. You will still get the one-off message when the CAPTCHA was solved by a poor worker anyway. My knowledge is a year or two out of date (haven't hosted forms in popular websites anymore), but it doesn't seem like this could have changed that rapidly. Bots don't suddenly understand English, and neural nets aren't much better or worse at word CAPTCHAs than picture CAPTCHAs. It's just that Google didn't need books anymore. I do still host a bug report form on a smaller site, and that just filters <a href, and more recently, http:// http://. If someone enters that, the site gives the helpful message that http is not allowed for spam reasons and they should use hxxp:// instead and that I'll understand what they meant. Haven't gotten any spam since I started including that. The cases where reCAPTCHA is a good idea are really rare. Logins can be solved with exponential back-off, forms can use spam filters similar to email and a simple CAPTCHA to catch the vast majority. With reCAPTCHA, I often spend minutes solving the because Google has no other markers to go on (deleting cookies, localstorage). I used to not mind them when other people were all complaining about those word CAPTCHAs (I found them easy) but now reCAPTCHA just take your time instead of your reading skills and they're absolutely awful. It rewards not using privacy technologies in your browser and so a lot of laymen don't experience the issues. Please don't use reCAPTCHA if at all possible...
yread 8y ago
Google DNS is also pretty big
why_only_15 8y ago
News to me doesn't seem that popular of a news mechanism but the others are extremely widespread. With maps you have Apple Maps but that's a bing-tier competitor.
- drywater 8y ago
  It’s embedded in newer Androids (by default I think). At least in my region it’s the channel to what’s worse in the news space.

- the way people navigate (Google Maps) - the way people get news (Google News) - the way people learn about their website (Google Analytics) - the way people fight spam (reCaptcha)

minimaul 8y ago

All excellent additions. Others: - a major way of embedding web fonts (Google Fonts) - a hugely successful cloud document suite (Google Docs) - a safe browsing service, making them effective gatekeepers of what can load in Chrome (Google Safe Browsing) - an ever growing system for schools to manage assignments (Google Classroom) - this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young

karussell 8y ago
Never heard of Safe Browsing and Classroom (probably because I'm not using Chrome) but Docs and Fonts are definitely true! > this one particularly concerns me because paired with Chromebooks, it brings kids into an entirely closed Google ecosystem very young I'm not too concerned as many other big corporations (Apple, Microsoft) are fighting this ;)
- propogandist 8y ago
  even if you're using firefox, it uses Google safebrowsing to check URLs you're visiting -- even sending your URL data to Google. The other corporations are only fighting small battles, but you can't compete with free, which is how Google gains its foothold.
  - jefftk 8y ago
    > even sending your URL data to Google "Each site you visit is checked against the Safe Browsing list on your system. If there's a match, your browser sends Google a hashed, partial copy of the site’s URL so that Google can send more information to your browser. Google cannot determine the real URL from this information." -- https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/#safe-browsing-practices https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/#safe-browsing... There's no way Firefox would be ok with sending all their user's visited URLs to Google. (Disclosure: I work at Google)
    - OJFord 8y ago
      +1 just for getting 'disclosure' right...
    - karussell 8y ago
      If it is a hash it could still see if a certain website was visited. Is this right? How do I disable this in Firefox? Is this the section about "Content Blocking"?
      - jefftk 8y ago
        Firefox docs are on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing and offer a range of config knobs.
asaddhamani 8y ago
Also - One of the most popular ways for running surveys / forms (Google Forms)

arendtio 8y ago

And I thought reCaptcha was invented to torture and condition humans.

dx034 8y ago
Is there any alternative to reCaptcha? As I understand, it's the only system that works well against most spammers, is free to use and easy to integrate. I'd be happy to switch to another provider but haven't found anything remotely as easy and effective.
- auslander 8y ago
  If you'd found such service, but it would be paid one, what price, per 1000 checks, would be ok for you?
- lucb1e 8y ago
  Making your own works fine, even if it's a simple "type these words". On HN I see enough articles about breaking reCAPTCHAs with (claimed) 90% accuracy and I know spammers also employ humans. You can't make the perfect CAPTCHA, but anything custom will almost certainly do. For smaller sites it's also perfectly fine to just include a few "are you humans?" type questions to which people should reply "yes" or some other obvious answer. Having to spend development effort just to flood you with messages is probably not worth it. You will still get the one-off message when the CAPTCHA was solved by a poor worker anyway. My knowledge is a year or two out of date (haven't hosted forms in popular websites anymore), but it doesn't seem like this could have changed that rapidly. Bots don't suddenly understand English, and neural nets aren't much better or worse at word CAPTCHAs than picture CAPTCHAs. It's just that Google didn't need books anymore. I do still host a bug report form on a smaller site, and that just filters <a href, and more recently, http:// http://. If someone enters that, the site gives the helpful message that http is not allowed for spam reasons and they should use hxxp:// instead and that I'll understand what they meant. Haven't gotten any spam since I started including that. The cases where reCAPTCHA is a good idea are really rare. Logins can be solved with exponential back-off, forms can use spam filters similar to email and a simple CAPTCHA to catch the vast majority. With reCAPTCHA, I often spend minutes solving the because Google has no other markers to go on (deleting cookies, localstorage). I used to not mind them when other people were all complaining about those word CAPTCHAs (I found them easy) but now reCAPTCHA just take your time instead of your reading skills and they're absolutely awful. It rewards not using privacy technologies in your browser and so a lot of laymen don't experience the issues. Please don't use reCAPTCHA if at all possible...

yread 8y ago

Google DNS is also pretty big

why_only_15 8y ago

News to me doesn't seem that popular of a news mechanism but the others are extremely widespread. With maps you have Apple Maps but that's a bing-tier competitor.

drywater 8y ago
It’s embedded in newer Androids (by default I think). At least in my region it’s the channel to what’s worse in the news space.