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I'm also a cyclist, and spent most of my life biking exclusively, but not everyone is in a position to replace their car. If your car commute is 45 minutes on t

I'm also a cyclist, and spent most of my life biking exclusively, but not everyone is in a position to replace their car. If your car commute is 45 minutes on the highway, a bicycle is not going to help you when you lose your license.

btrettel 8y ago
> not everyone is in a position to replace their car I agree, which is why I said taking away someone's license is net counterproductive. Also, I'm not suggesting that people should become cyclists, just that driving is expensive.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  On the flipside, a 45min commute in bad traffic can be a breeze on an eBike. Building mine ran $800 all in, and its been quite a commute changer. Ultimately, these are just bandaids for low-density areas, greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting.
  - rightbyte 8y ago
    I would happely bike 45 min to work 7 months a year when it's not freezing and I did so, till I left academia and took a industry job 45 min away with car. The main problem for commuting efficiency is housing and barrier of entry for getting a job close to where I live or vice versa.
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    > greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting It might help distance, but it usually doesn't do much to help time.
    - StudentStuff 8y ago
      Higher density means the grocery store is a 7 minute walk away rather than a 15 to 20 minute drive. Same goes for other destinations, though housing bubbles like what is occurring right now have inflicted needless commuting on many workers.
Tomte 8y ago
Even much shorter distances, say, five kilometers. Don't forget health and fitness. It's always cringy when bike activists just assume that everybody can get to work on a bike fast and without sweating. Yes, if they started now, many could do that in a few months. But the whole discussion tends to veer into fat shaming real quick.
- btrettel 8y ago
  Your views of bike activists do not match my experience. > It's always cringy when bike activists just assume that everybody can get to work on a bike fast and without sweating. My experience is that people tend to have an inaccurate view of what bike activists believe. I think few would say that most people can switch to cycling without major issues. As for sweating, my experience is that cyclists tend to argue that some sweating is acceptable, not that people won't sweat. I can recall some people discussing how to reduce how much you sweat to a minimum, but I can't recall anyone claiming that you won't sweat at all. > But the whole discussion tends to veer into fat shaming real quick. Having participated in and observed many conversations about cycling, I can't recall that happening once. Can you point out an example?
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  With ebikes these days, you probably can. And you can generally adjust how much assistance they give to match your circumstances.
TulliusCicero 8y ago
Right, and a 45 minute car commute that can't be replaced by public transit is...well, not uniquely American, but certainly a hell of a lot more common in the US than most other developed countries.
- gwright 8y ago
  The situation seems a bit more nuanced than that: https://daliaresearch.com/the-countries-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes/ https://daliaresearch.com/the-countries-with-the-longest-and...
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    ...is this data reliable? It seems to contradict other studies I've seen. And I don't just mean that it contradicts the parts that support my point. I was under the impression that Japan had generally longer commutes than the US, for example. But in any case, it doesn't seem to contradict anything that I said.
    - gwright 8y ago
      I make no claims on the reliability of the data. I just tend to get a bit suspicious when problems are described as being particular to the US or worse in the US than in other places. I find that in many cases that is just not true. So I tend to poke around and see what I can see.
      - TulliusCicero 8y ago
        I wasn't saying that the length of the commute itself was unusual, but rather that it was a lengthy car commute that was unable to be replaced by public transit. In the case of many other countries, like Japan or Germany, most people's commutes can be accomplished reasonably efficiently with public transportation (often public transportation is even faster due to traffic).

btrettel 8y ago

> not everyone is in a position to replace their car I agree, which is why I said taking away someone's license is net counterproductive. Also, I'm not suggesting that people should become cyclists, just that driving is expensive.

StudentStuff 8y ago
On the flipside, a 45min commute in bad traffic can be a breeze on an eBike. Building mine ran $800 all in, and its been quite a commute changer. Ultimately, these are just bandaids for low-density areas, greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting.
- rightbyte 8y ago
  I would happely bike 45 min to work 7 months a year when it's not freezing and I did so, till I left academia and took a industry job 45 min away with car. The main problem for commuting efficiency is housing and barrier of entry for getting a job close to where I live or vice versa.
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  > greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting It might help distance, but it usually doesn't do much to help time.
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    Higher density means the grocery store is a 7 minute walk away rather than a 15 to 20 minute drive. Same goes for other destinations, though housing bubbles like what is occurring right now have inflicted needless commuting on many workers.

Tomte 8y ago

Even much shorter distances, say, five kilometers. Don't forget health and fitness. It's always cringy when bike activists just assume that everybody can get to work on a bike fast and without sweating. Yes, if they started now, many could do that in a few months. But the whole discussion tends to veer into fat shaming real quick.

btrettel 8y ago
Your views of bike activists do not match my experience. > It's always cringy when bike activists just assume that everybody can get to work on a bike fast and without sweating. My experience is that people tend to have an inaccurate view of what bike activists believe. I think few would say that most people can switch to cycling without major issues. As for sweating, my experience is that cyclists tend to argue that some sweating is acceptable, not that people won't sweat. I can recall some people discussing how to reduce how much you sweat to a minimum, but I can't recall anyone claiming that you won't sweat at all. > But the whole discussion tends to veer into fat shaming real quick. Having participated in and observed many conversations about cycling, I can't recall that happening once. Can you point out an example?
TulliusCicero 8y ago
With ebikes these days, you probably can. And you can generally adjust how much assistance they give to match your circumstances.

TulliusCicero 8y ago

Right, and a 45 minute car commute that can't be replaced by public transit is...well, not uniquely American, but certainly a hell of a lot more common in the US than most other developed countries.

gwright 8y ago
The situation seems a bit more nuanced than that: https://daliaresearch.com/the-countries-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes/ https://daliaresearch.com/the-countries-with-the-longest-and...
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  ...is this data reliable? It seems to contradict other studies I've seen. And I don't just mean that it contradicts the parts that support my point. I was under the impression that Japan had generally longer commutes than the US, for example. But in any case, it doesn't seem to contradict anything that I said.
  - gwright 8y ago
    I make no claims on the reliability of the data. I just tend to get a bit suspicious when problems are described as being particular to the US or worse in the US than in other places. I find that in many cases that is just not true. So I tend to poke around and see what I can see.
    - TulliusCicero 8y ago
      I wasn't saying that the length of the commute itself was unusual, but rather that it was a lengthy car commute that was unable to be replaced by public transit. In the case of many other countries, like Japan or Germany, most people's commutes can be accomplished reasonably efficiently with public transportation (often public transportation is even faster due to traffic).