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That's the whole point. Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to

by iooi 8y ago

That's the whole point. Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people. But what if you don't have auto debt? That logic doesn't work if someone bought a car they could afford.
- iooi 8y ago
  Almost 50% of the car-owning US population relies on debt to purchase their vehicle [1]. There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright compared to older people that are well into their careers or retirement. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-number-of-americans-holding-auto-loan-debt-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-infographic/#5b0a2d107ffe https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-nu...
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright I dunno, having an owned-outright used beater seemed normal among my peer group when I was in/just out of college; having newer, better (relative to contemporaries) vehicles with financing is more common now that we're very well into careers. You can get a student loan with no credit history at pretty much the same terms as everyone else, but that is decidedly not he case for auto loans.
    - pixl97 8y ago
      Emissions testing makes owning a beater risky.
      - saxonww 8y ago
        I was wondering about how prevalent this is - I've never had a car emissions-tested - and it looks like 31 states + DC have emissions testing in at least some part of the state [0]. Just glancing over this list, it looks like several states only test in metro areas, or otherwise have exceptions; even California has counties which do not test for emissions. Specifically, it looks like several states exempt from testing cars from the mid 90s and older. Lots of those still on the road. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Jurisdictions_requiring_periodic_vehicle_emissions_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit...
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    So those who didn't (for instance, I didn't have a car loan while I was paying off my student loan debt) should be punished by removing their means of transportation because that'll somehow get them to prioritize it at the same level as said paid-for car (which keep gas in it and change it's oil once in a while)? If an ex student is still living with mom and dad or using a borrowed car to get to work, there's an actual logical reason that their ability to get to that job should be compromised because they didn't pay their student debt?
    - iooi 8y ago
      Again, I'm not advocating for this system, all the points you make are completely valid. That said, this will move the needle for almost 50% of that population. Student debt is already non-dischargeable, and delinquencies are hitting record highs every quarter. Creditors are just trying to collect any way they can. There's a lot of factors at work: the cost of education is insane, student loans are very easy to get, there is a ton of pressure to go to college, it's hard to think long term when you're 18, financial literacy is poor through high school, etc.
thatcat 8y ago
That is a very lazy way to construct an incentive system, sounds like an HR "innovation" not legislation.
- iooi 8y ago
  Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for this system, it's just the way it is. This is article is a good (albeit small) overview of the size of the issue: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-loan-delinquencies-record.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-...

by iooi 8y ago

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

> Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people. But what if you don't have auto debt? That logic doesn't work if someone bought a car they could afford.

iooi 8y ago
Almost 50% of the car-owning US population relies on debt to purchase their vehicle [1]. There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright compared to older people that are well into their careers or retirement. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-number-of-americans-holding-auto-loan-debt-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-infographic/#5b0a2d107ffe https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-nu...
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright I dunno, having an owned-outright used beater seemed normal among my peer group when I was in/just out of college; having newer, better (relative to contemporaries) vehicles with financing is more common now that we're very well into careers. You can get a student loan with no credit history at pretty much the same terms as everyone else, but that is decidedly not he case for auto loans.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    Emissions testing makes owning a beater risky.
    - saxonww 8y ago
      I was wondering about how prevalent this is - I've never had a car emissions-tested - and it looks like 31 states + DC have emissions testing in at least some part of the state [0]. Just glancing over this list, it looks like several states only test in metro areas, or otherwise have exceptions; even California has counties which do not test for emissions. Specifically, it looks like several states exempt from testing cars from the mid 90s and older. Lots of those still on the road. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Jurisdictions_requiring_periodic_vehicle_emissions_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit...
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  So those who didn't (for instance, I didn't have a car loan while I was paying off my student loan debt) should be punished by removing their means of transportation because that'll somehow get them to prioritize it at the same level as said paid-for car (which keep gas in it and change it's oil once in a while)? If an ex student is still living with mom and dad or using a borrowed car to get to work, there's an actual logical reason that their ability to get to that job should be compromised because they didn't pay their student debt?
  - iooi 8y ago
    Again, I'm not advocating for this system, all the points you make are completely valid. That said, this will move the needle for almost 50% of that population. Student debt is already non-dischargeable, and delinquencies are hitting record highs every quarter. Creditors are just trying to collect any way they can. There's a lot of factors at work: the cost of education is insane, student loans are very easy to get, there is a ton of pressure to go to college, it's hard to think long term when you're 18, financial literacy is poor through high school, etc.

thatcat 8y ago

That is a very lazy way to construct an incentive system, sounds like an HR "innovation" not legislation.

iooi 8y ago
Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for this system, it's just the way it is. This is article is a good (albeit small) overview of the size of the issue: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-loan-delinquencies-record.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-...