5 ms·

Are you serious? That sounds like a stupid idea, what if you need a car for/to reach work? then this is really counterproductive.

crooked-v 8y ago
Similar things happen with unpaid child support, which absolutely doesn't help money actually show up for obvious reasons.
iooi 8y ago
That's the whole point. Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people. But what if you don't have auto debt? That logic doesn't work if someone bought a car they could afford.
  - iooi 8y ago
    Almost 50% of the car-owning US population relies on debt to purchase their vehicle [1]. There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright compared to older people that are well into their careers or retirement. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-number-of-americans-holding-auto-loan-debt-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-infographic/#5b0a2d107ffe https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-nu...
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright I dunno, having an owned-outright used beater seemed normal among my peer group when I was in/just out of college; having newer, better (relative to contemporaries) vehicles with financing is more common now that we're very well into careers. You can get a student loan with no credit history at pretty much the same terms as everyone else, but that is decidedly not he case for auto loans.
      - pixl97 8y ago
        Emissions testing makes owning a beater risky.
        saxonww 8y ago
        I was wondering about how prevalent this is - I've never had a car emissions-tested - and it looks like 31 states + DC have emissions testing in at least some part of the state [0]. Just glancing over this list, it looks like several states only test in metro areas, or otherwise have exceptions; even California has counties which do not test for emissions. Specifically, it looks like several states exempt from testing cars from the mid 90s and older. Lots of those still on the road. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Jurisdictions_requiring_periodic_vehicle_emissions_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit...
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      So those who didn't (for instance, I didn't have a car loan while I was paying off my student loan debt) should be punished by removing their means of transportation because that'll somehow get them to prioritize it at the same level as said paid-for car (which keep gas in it and change it's oil once in a while)? If an ex student is still living with mom and dad or using a borrowed car to get to work, there's an actual logical reason that their ability to get to that job should be compromised because they didn't pay their student debt?
- thatcat 8y ago
  That is a very lazy way to construct an incentive system, sounds like an HR "innovation" not legislation.
  - iooi 8y ago
    Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for this system, it's just the way it is. This is article is a good (albeit small) overview of the size of the issue: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-loan-delinquencies-record.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-...
godelski 8y ago
> what if you need a car for/to reach work? This is America. So the answer is almost certainly: "Yes, you need your car to reach work."
- mruts 8y ago
  5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. I wouldn't call that an almost certainty that you need a car. An almost certainty would be maybe under <.001%
  - godelski 8y ago
    > 5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. rephrasing: 95% of Americans take private transit to get to work. I would call that an almost certainty that you need a car.
    - mruts 8y ago
      If there was a 5% the market would crash 50% tomorrow. Would you call that an almost certainty that it wouldn't happen? You wouldn't hedge your risk? If there was a 5% that you would die tomorrow, you wouldn't feel concerned? 5% is huge.
      - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
        5% is "huge" when considering probability of a "catastrophic" event compounded over time, because what you're really thinking of is "expected value over a year" or something like that. This 5 percent, by contrast, is a fraction of a population.
      - P_I_Staker 8y ago
        What are you talking about? If 5% of the workforce showed up tomorrow, what do you think would happen? How'd you feel if you had a 5% chance of having transport to work?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
droithomme 8y ago
> That sounds like a stupid idea, what if you need a car for/to reach work? The point of these laws in the US is to punish and destroy people for the raw pleasure that power gives, and is not to seek rehabilitation or justice. The US is still a lynch mob oriented Puritan society on every level. The evil must be tortured and killed. The righteous must be elevated and never questioned, even if they are burning witches or werewolves at the stake without evidence that either even exists at all.

crooked-v 8y ago

Similar things happen with unpaid child support, which absolutely doesn't help money actually show up for obvious reasons.

iooi 8y ago

That's the whole point. Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people. But what if you don't have auto debt? That logic doesn't work if someone bought a car they could afford.
- iooi 8y ago
  Almost 50% of the car-owning US population relies on debt to purchase their vehicle [1]. There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright compared to older people that are well into their careers or retirement. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-number-of-americans-holding-auto-loan-debt-shows-no-signs-of-slowing-down-infographic/#5b0a2d107ffe https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/03/the-nu...
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > There isn't any data on this, but I think it's safe to assume that younger people that also have student loans don't own their vehicle outright I dunno, having an owned-outright used beater seemed normal among my peer group when I was in/just out of college; having newer, better (relative to contemporaries) vehicles with financing is more common now that we're very well into careers. You can get a student loan with no credit history at pretty much the same terms as everyone else, but that is decidedly not he case for auto loans.
    - pixl97 8y ago
      Emissions testing makes owning a beater risky.
      - saxonww 8y ago
        I was wondering about how prevalent this is - I've never had a car emissions-tested - and it looks like 31 states + DC have emissions testing in at least some part of the state [0]. Just glancing over this list, it looks like several states only test in metro areas, or otherwise have exceptions; even California has counties which do not test for emissions. Specifically, it looks like several states exempt from testing cars from the mid 90s and older. Lots of those still on the road. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Jurisdictions_requiring_periodic_vehicle_emissions_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit...
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    So those who didn't (for instance, I didn't have a car loan while I was paying off my student loan debt) should be punished by removing their means of transportation because that'll somehow get them to prioritize it at the same level as said paid-for car (which keep gas in it and change it's oil once in a while)? If an ex student is still living with mom and dad or using a borrowed car to get to work, there's an actual logical reason that their ability to get to that job should be compromised because they didn't pay their student debt?
thatcat 8y ago
That is a very lazy way to construct an incentive system, sounds like an HR "innovation" not legislation.
- iooi 8y ago
  Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for this system, it's just the way it is. This is article is a good (albeit small) overview of the size of the issue: https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-loan-delinquencies-record.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/13/us-debt-rate-auto-...

godelski 8y ago

> what if you need a car for/to reach work? This is America. So the answer is almost certainly: "Yes, you need your car to reach work."

mruts 8y ago
5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. I wouldn't call that an almost certainty that you need a car. An almost certainty would be maybe under <.001%
- godelski 8y ago
  > 5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. rephrasing: 95% of Americans take private transit to get to work. I would call that an almost certainty that you need a car.
  - mruts 8y ago
    If there was a 5% the market would crash 50% tomorrow. Would you call that an almost certainty that it wouldn't happen? You wouldn't hedge your risk? If there was a 5% that you would die tomorrow, you wouldn't feel concerned? 5% is huge.
    - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
      5% is "huge" when considering probability of a "catastrophic" event compounded over time, because what you're really thinking of is "expected value over a year" or something like that. This 5 percent, by contrast, is a fraction of a population.
    - P_I_Staker 8y ago
      What are you talking about? If 5% of the workforce showed up tomorrow, what do you think would happen? How'd you feel if you had a 5% chance of having transport to work?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

droithomme 8y ago

> That sounds like a stupid idea, what if you need a car for/to reach work? The point of these laws in the US is to punish and destroy people for the raw pleasure that power gives, and is not to seek rehabilitation or justice. The US is still a lynch mob oriented Puritan society on every level. The evil must be tortured and killed. The righteous must be elevated and never questioned, even if they are burning witches or werewolves at the stake without evidence that either even exists at all.