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Right, finding virtue in suffering is more a trait of Christianity than Stoicism. Stoicism doesn't think suffering is virtuous. Stoicism's approach to suffe

Right, finding virtue in suffering is more a trait of Christianity than Stoicism. Stoicism doesn't think suffering is virtuous. Stoicism's approach to suffering is giving you the tools to endure suffering you can't avoid, and the tools to recognize and seize opportunities when you can avoid suffering. It does not teach people to seek out suffering or to endure suffering when it's within their power to prevent or avoid it. Christianity on the other hand is all about virtue in suffering, perhaps best communicated by the anecdote of Christ having the opportunity to avoid suffering on the cross, but refusing that opportunity. (There is a great deal to be said about how Christianity finds virtue in suffering, enough to fill books, but this singular example is perhaps the most vivid, and maybe even the root of it.) The confusion may arise because Christians have often voiced some tentative respect for Stoicism, but they in fact have very different approaches to suffering.

martythemaniak 8y ago
When you have an axe to grind, any hard surface will do. Your comment made me imagine a parody article where suddenly Christianity is really popular in SV and the author lambasts techies for their love of suffering, their cynical beliefs that all people are born sinners, their belief in an all-mighty-all-powerful lord to whom you must submit to be saved, etc etc. It'd be pretty funny.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Christianity on the other hand is all about virtue in suffering, with Christ having the opportunity to avoid suffering on the cross, but refusing that opportunity The purpose was virtuous, and consequently so was resisting the temptation to abandon it because of the suffering, but suffering in and of itself is not virtuous.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  That take is not one Paul and many other Christians throughout history seems to agree with. In Philippians he describes there being virtue in suffering as it brings you closer to the experience of Christ on the cross. The practice of 'mortification of the flesh' is another example of Christians seeking out suffering, believing it will bring them closer to Christ. And as I hinted, the Crucifixion is very far from the only instance of Christ's recorded behavior used to justify suffering as a virtue. There are other examples, such as Christ fasting in the desert for 40 days and nights despite there being no obligation (not of his own creations) for him to do so. As a ex-christian it seems distasteful for me to start quoting scripture, but I can if you demand it. There is ample scriptural evidence for Christians believing there is virtue in suffering, and ample historic evidence of Christians acting in accordance to this belief. It's a pretty straight forward element of Christianity: Christ suffered, therefore you can bring yourself closer to him by doing the same.
  - pmoriarty 8y ago
    "The practice of 'mortification of the flesh' is another example of Christians seeking out suffering, believing it will bring them closer to Christ." Some Christians took it even further and sought out martyrdom to get closer to Christ or ensure themselves a place in heaven. Even now, there are people (in Brazil, if I'm not mistaken) who crucify themselves for similar reasons.

martythemaniak 8y ago

When you have an axe to grind, any hard surface will do. Your comment made me imagine a parody article where suddenly Christianity is really popular in SV and the author lambasts techies for their love of suffering, their cynical beliefs that all people are born sinners, their belief in an all-mighty-all-powerful lord to whom you must submit to be saved, etc etc. It'd be pretty funny.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Christianity on the other hand is all about virtue in suffering, with Christ having the opportunity to avoid suffering on the cross, but refusing that opportunity The purpose was virtuous, and consequently so was resisting the temptation to abandon it because of the suffering, but suffering in and of itself is not virtuous.

darkpuma 8y ago
That take is not one Paul and many other Christians throughout history seems to agree with. In Philippians he describes there being virtue in suffering as it brings you closer to the experience of Christ on the cross. The practice of 'mortification of the flesh' is another example of Christians seeking out suffering, believing it will bring them closer to Christ. And as I hinted, the Crucifixion is very far from the only instance of Christ's recorded behavior used to justify suffering as a virtue. There are other examples, such as Christ fasting in the desert for 40 days and nights despite there being no obligation (not of his own creations) for him to do so. As a ex-christian it seems distasteful for me to start quoting scripture, but I can if you demand it. There is ample scriptural evidence for Christians believing there is virtue in suffering, and ample historic evidence of Christians acting in accordance to this belief. It's a pretty straight forward element of Christianity: Christ suffered, therefore you can bring yourself closer to him by doing the same.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  "The practice of 'mortification of the flesh' is another example of Christians seeking out suffering, believing it will bring them closer to Christ." Some Christians took it even further and sought out martyrdom to get closer to Christ or ensure themselves a place in heaven. Even now, there are people (in Brazil, if I'm not mistaken) who crucify themselves for similar reasons.