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I don’t know. I sometimes manufacture physical products. I could state publically that I won’t. I could also not buy products made in China personally. In gene

by ada1981 8y ago

I don’t know. I sometimes manufacture physical products. I could state publically that I won’t. I could also not buy products made in China personally. In general we ought to try to change things we don’t like. I can’t imagine the people of China like this system do they?

Leary 8y ago
You can ask Chinese people whether they think the system is good and whether they want you to boycott China.
- godelski 8y ago
  I'd be interested in this, but every Chinese person that I've spoken to (they haven't been back to China in awhile), seems to think it is either just like the American credit system or that the government already knows everything about them and that there's security through obscurity. Is this common? Not considering politics for a second, I just couldn't imagine the impact of an Equifax like event with that amount of information.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
They do, actually! Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-people-china-think-about-social-credit-monitoring/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-p... Presumably a system that promotes good behavior is well liked by people who haven't run afoul of it. And of course, via censorship practices, a very small percentage of Chinese citizens are aware of a lot of reasons they should be concerned about their government. Russian citizens are also wildly enthusiastic about Vladimir Putin. It's not a safe assumption that people living in countries with authoritarian leaders disapprove of them.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  > It's not a safe assumption that people living in countries with authoritarian leaders disapprove of them. Also see Hitler's popular approval ratings [0] (Godwin's law notwithstanding). In August 1934, roughly 90% of German voters were in favor of the consolidation of the offices of President and Chancellor into a single Leader-Chancellor in the person of Adolf Hitler. Note that number should be taken with a big grain of salt, since there was tremendous social and political pressure to vote that way -- and a threat of repercussions for voting "no". [0] https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0819.html#article https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general...
  - refurb 8y ago
    What an absolutely fascinating article to read. In all Bavaria Chancellor Hitler received the largest vote in his favor in the concentration camp at Dachau where 1,554 persons voted "Yes" and only eight "No" and there were only ten spoiled ballots.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "Russian citizens are also wildly enthusiastic about Vladimir Putin." As far as I'm aware, that's a bit out of date. It also, I believe, comes from a misconception concerning human nature, namely that popularity is uni-dimensional. Which is to say, Russians who believe Putin is a superb leader in foreign affairs, great at making Russia seem big and scary to the rest of the world, may also think Putin is an ineffectual corrupt thug when it comes to domestic affairs. When high popularity ratings are attributed to Putin, the surveys ask a wide variety of questions: > How do you feel about how Putin is handling foreign conflicts? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling the economy? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling the drug epidemic? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling corruption and law enforcement? Approval for Putin varies GREATLY between questions like that. When it comes time to make a headline, whichever measure is chosen depends on which bolsters the story. If the story is that Putin is highly effective at manipulating his population, then the dimension across which he's the most popular is chosen for the headline. If the story is that Putin's power in Russia is faltering, then a different dimension is picked for the headline. It's not lying per se, but it's very similar to a form of p-hacking. Picking which result to report and ignoring the others is a trick used often in the media and academia. Here is an article that supports what I'm asserting: https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-perspective/ https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian... See the nice little table at the bottom that breaks out Putin's approval rating on different issues. In 2015, 83% approved of the way he was handling Ukraine. This dropped to 63% by the spring of 2017. And by the spring of 2017, approval for how Putin is handling corruption is already below 49%. From this we can see there are Russians who approve of Putin's treatment of Ukraine who still think Putin is corrupt. (That link is page two of the article, which I think is generally interesting and worth giving a read: https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/russians-remain-confident-in-putins-global-leadership/ https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/russians-remain-confide... )
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > They do, actually! Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-people-china-think-about-social-credit-monitoring/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-p... > Presumably a system that promotes good behavior is well liked by people who haven't run afoul of it. And of course, via censorship practices, a very small percentage of Chinese citizens are aware of a lot of reasons they should be concerned about their government. For that reason, I think it's important to take such public-opinion data with a grain of salt. You have to wait until people have enough direct contact with the system in question so they can form an informed opinion of it.
- wonderwonder 8y ago
  Its also illegal in Russia to make negative statements about the government or state. What people say in public about leadership is quasi dictatorships is possibly different than what they think in private.
thanksDr 8y ago
How much do you love the social credit system? Remember, any answer other than "with all my heart" is a ticket to the gulag.

Leary 8y ago

You can ask Chinese people whether they think the system is good and whether they want you to boycott China.

godelski 8y ago
I'd be interested in this, but every Chinese person that I've spoken to (they haven't been back to China in awhile), seems to think it is either just like the American credit system or that the government already knows everything about them and that there's security through obscurity. Is this common? Not considering politics for a second, I just couldn't imagine the impact of an Equifax like event with that amount of information.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

They do, actually! Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-people-china-think-about-social-credit-monitoring/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-p... Presumably a system that promotes good behavior is well liked by people who haven't run afoul of it. And of course, via censorship practices, a very small percentage of Chinese citizens are aware of a lot of reasons they should be concerned about their government. Russian citizens are also wildly enthusiastic about Vladimir Putin. It's not a safe assumption that people living in countries with authoritarian leaders disapprove of them.

TimTheTinker 8y ago
> It's not a safe assumption that people living in countries with authoritarian leaders disapprove of them. Also see Hitler's popular approval ratings [0] (Godwin's law notwithstanding). In August 1934, roughly 90% of German voters were in favor of the consolidation of the offices of President and Chancellor into a single Leader-Chancellor in the person of Adolf Hitler. Note that number should be taken with a big grain of salt, since there was tremendous social and political pressure to vote that way -- and a threat of repercussions for voting "no". [0] https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0819.html#article https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general...
- refurb 8y ago
  What an absolutely fascinating article to read. In all Bavaria Chancellor Hitler received the largest vote in his favor in the concentration camp at Dachau where 1,554 persons voted "Yes" and only eight "No" and there were only ten spoiled ballots.
darkpuma 8y ago
> "Russian citizens are also wildly enthusiastic about Vladimir Putin." As far as I'm aware, that's a bit out of date. It also, I believe, comes from a misconception concerning human nature, namely that popularity is uni-dimensional. Which is to say, Russians who believe Putin is a superb leader in foreign affairs, great at making Russia seem big and scary to the rest of the world, may also think Putin is an ineffectual corrupt thug when it comes to domestic affairs. When high popularity ratings are attributed to Putin, the surveys ask a wide variety of questions: > How do you feel about how Putin is handling foreign conflicts? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling the economy? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling the drug epidemic? > How do you feel about how Putin is handling corruption and law enforcement? Approval for Putin varies GREATLY between questions like that. When it comes time to make a headline, whichever measure is chosen depends on which bolsters the story. If the story is that Putin is highly effective at manipulating his population, then the dimension across which he's the most popular is chosen for the headline. If the story is that Putin's power in Russia is faltering, then a different dimension is picked for the headline. It's not lying per se, but it's very similar to a form of p-hacking. Picking which result to report and ignoring the others is a trick used often in the media and academia. Here is an article that supports what I'm asserting: https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-perspective/ https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian... See the nice little table at the bottom that breaks out Putin's approval rating on different issues. In 2015, 83% approved of the way he was handling Ukraine. This dropped to 63% by the spring of 2017. And by the spring of 2017, approval for how Putin is handling corruption is already below 49%. From this we can see there are Russians who approve of Putin's treatment of Ukraine who still think Putin is corrupt. (That link is page two of the article, which I think is generally interesting and worth giving a read: https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/russians-remain-confident-in-putins-global-leadership/ https://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/russians-remain-confide... )
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
CharlesColeman 8y ago
> They do, actually! Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-people-china-think-about-social-credit-monitoring/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/what-do-p... > Presumably a system that promotes good behavior is well liked by people who haven't run afoul of it. And of course, via censorship practices, a very small percentage of Chinese citizens are aware of a lot of reasons they should be concerned about their government. For that reason, I think it's important to take such public-opinion data with a grain of salt. You have to wait until people have enough direct contact with the system in question so they can form an informed opinion of it.
wonderwonder 8y ago
Its also illegal in Russia to make negative statements about the government or state. What people say in public about leadership is quasi dictatorships is possibly different than what they think in private.

thanksDr 8y ago

How much do you love the social credit system? Remember, any answer other than "with all my heart" is a ticket to the gulag.