4 ms·

Does anyone know why the source was pulled?

sudont 16y ago
I’m guessing somebody leaned on Sony, as this was stated to be an all-in thing for their upcoming product lines, not an "experimental R&D project" as listed now. There’s a couple of major players, namely Microsoft and Oracle; I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was unhappy with this and moved to keep their skill-bank walled in. Other than that, maybe a pointy-haired boss wanted something like .NET because it sounded more internet-y.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was unhappy with this and moved to keep their skill-bank walled in. I would find this surprising: more companies using obj-c means more people using obj-c means more people able to code on Apple platforms, which use obj-c nigh-exclusively.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Apple has no problem when people write software for their platforms, as long as it's not portable to other, competing, platforms. If this effort went through, GNUStep could eventually be used to port Mac software to other platforms (Windows included) or to run it against controlled environments that would render iTunes DRM useless, and that's something Apple won't let happen.
    - stuhacking 16y ago
      Nobody is currently preventing this from happening and I doubt there is much Apple could do to stop it. That is to say, Openstep is an open API that anyone is free to develop an implementation of. Of course, this isn't the same as if, for example, Sony directly circumvented or undermined Apple's security or certification technology.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        > I doubt there is much Apple could do to stop it. That is to say, Openstep is an open API that anyone is free to develop an implementation of. I am not so sure. OpenStep (the spec) is probably safe, but that doesn't make sure the rest of Cocoa (which implements a superset of OpenStep) is immune from a patent or IP-related offensive.
    - Andrewski 16y ago
      Are you joking? Cocoa / GNUStep applications have been around for years and Apple has in no way attempted to punish anybody for making them. GNUstep has already been tracking Apple's Cocoa for years without Apple complaining. If you had any sort of evidence to support your wild theory I would be all ears.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        GNUStep is not a viable alternative for developing cross-platform software that is competitive with the tools you use to build Mac-only software. I seriously doubt most software I use on my Mac is just a simple recompile away from my Linux notebook. If you have some evidence to support that, please, enlighten me. If enough momentum is built behind GNUStep and it becomes a superset of Cocoa, it would be rather trivial to build a Wine-like environment for running OSX software on other OSs and that, I am sure, Apple would strongly oppose.
        Andrewski 16y ago
        Obviously Apple's Cocoa and Cocoa Touch libraries are a moving target and GNUstep is tracking those as best it can. There are already people releasing software for both: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep#Ported_from_NeXTSTEP.2C_OPENSTEP.2C_or_Mac_OS_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep#Ported_from_NeXTSTEP.2C... Regardless of whether or not they are exactly compatible (some tweaking is necessary) I wonder where you get the idea that Apple would attack the GNUstep folks. Sounds like standard-grade FUD to me.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        > Sounds like standard-grade FUD to me. It's not FUD: it's just sane business strategy. If and when Apple sees GNUStep as a competitive threat (i.e. if a product based on it robs some market share), they'll attack it with whatever weapons they find most effective at the time. As it is now, it's not threatening them and Apple may even benefit from it, so, they'll leave GNUStep alone for the time being. At least that's what I would do in their shoes. As for why Sony halted its project, my bet would be the implicit patent grant in LGPLv2.1. That may feel uncomfortable for someone who needs to cross-license IP.
gcb 16y ago
They are afraid of being hit with a lawsuit on multitouch. since apple is suing everyone with two fingers.
aberkowitz 16y ago
Perhaps Sony forgot to remove code [0] that leaks new technology [1]. [0] http://blog.deliciousrobots.com/2010/11/27/sonys-changes-to-gnustep-gui-library-adding-touch/ http://blog.deliciousrobots.com/2010/11/27/sonys-changes-to-... [1] http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/28/sony-fires-barrage-of-touchscreen-patent-applications-only-one/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/28/sony-fires-barrage-of-tou...
olalonde 16y ago
PR stunt maybe?

I’m guessing somebody leaned on Sony, as this was stated to be an all-in thing for their upcoming product lines, not an "experimental R&D project" as listed now. There’s a couple of major players, namely Microsoft and Oracle; I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was unhappy with this and moved to keep their skill-bank walled in. Other than that, maybe a pointy-haired boss wanted something like .NET because it sounded more internet-y.

masklinn 16y ago
> I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was unhappy with this and moved to keep their skill-bank walled in. I would find this surprising: more companies using obj-c means more people using obj-c means more people able to code on Apple platforms, which use obj-c nigh-exclusively.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Apple has no problem when people write software for their platforms, as long as it's not portable to other, competing, platforms. If this effort went through, GNUStep could eventually be used to port Mac software to other platforms (Windows included) or to run it against controlled environments that would render iTunes DRM useless, and that's something Apple won't let happen.
  - stuhacking 16y ago
    Nobody is currently preventing this from happening and I doubt there is much Apple could do to stop it. That is to say, Openstep is an open API that anyone is free to develop an implementation of. Of course, this isn't the same as if, for example, Sony directly circumvented or undermined Apple's security or certification technology.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > I doubt there is much Apple could do to stop it. That is to say, Openstep is an open API that anyone is free to develop an implementation of. I am not so sure. OpenStep (the spec) is probably safe, but that doesn't make sure the rest of Cocoa (which implements a superset of OpenStep) is immune from a patent or IP-related offensive.
  - Andrewski 16y ago
    Are you joking? Cocoa / GNUStep applications have been around for years and Apple has in no way attempted to punish anybody for making them. GNUstep has already been tracking Apple's Cocoa for years without Apple complaining. If you had any sort of evidence to support your wild theory I would be all ears.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      GNUStep is not a viable alternative for developing cross-platform software that is competitive with the tools you use to build Mac-only software. I seriously doubt most software I use on my Mac is just a simple recompile away from my Linux notebook. If you have some evidence to support that, please, enlighten me. If enough momentum is built behind GNUStep and it becomes a superset of Cocoa, it would be rather trivial to build a Wine-like environment for running OSX software on other OSs and that, I am sure, Apple would strongly oppose.
      - Andrewski 16y ago
        Obviously Apple's Cocoa and Cocoa Touch libraries are a moving target and GNUstep is tracking those as best it can. There are already people releasing software for both: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep#Ported_from_NeXTSTEP.2C_OPENSTEP.2C_or_Mac_OS_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep#Ported_from_NeXTSTEP.2C... Regardless of whether or not they are exactly compatible (some tweaking is necessary) I wonder where you get the idea that Apple would attack the GNUstep folks. Sounds like standard-grade FUD to me.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        > Sounds like standard-grade FUD to me. It's not FUD: it's just sane business strategy. If and when Apple sees GNUStep as a competitive threat (i.e. if a product based on it robs some market share), they'll attack it with whatever weapons they find most effective at the time. As it is now, it's not threatening them and Apple may even benefit from it, so, they'll leave GNUStep alone for the time being. At least that's what I would do in their shoes. As for why Sony halted its project, my bet would be the implicit patent grant in LGPLv2.1. That may feel uncomfortable for someone who needs to cross-license IP.

gcb 16y ago

They are afraid of being hit with a lawsuit on multitouch. since apple is suing everyone with two fingers.

aberkowitz 16y ago

Perhaps Sony forgot to remove code [0] that leaks new technology [1]. [0] http://blog.deliciousrobots.com/2010/11/27/sonys-changes-to-gnustep-gui-library-adding-touch/ http://blog.deliciousrobots.com/2010/11/27/sonys-changes-to-... [1] http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/28/sony-fires-barrage-of-touchscreen-patent-applications-only-one/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/28/sony-fires-barrage-of-tou...

olalonde 16y ago

PR stunt maybe?