4 ms·

Allying with Stalin's enemy (Hitler) was pretty much the only option for Finland (population 3.7 million) to keep the independence against the Soviet Union (pop

by sampo 8y ago

Allying with Stalin's enemy (Hitler) was pretty much the only option for Finland (population 3.7 million) to keep the independence against the Soviet Union (population 170 million). But after 1944, having been allied with Germany became highly unfashionable, so we try to be a little quiet about it. But we don't apologize for staying independent.

ptaipale 8y ago
This is a bit of a diversion from topic, but the population of Soviet Union, and how it was calculated, is a very interesting issue. Stalin expected a fast population growth, and when the 1937 census showed that he was mistaken, and population of USSR was only 162 million, Stalin had statisticians sent to the GULAG and some were even executed. After that, many tried to avoid being nominated for top jobs, out of fear for meeting the same fate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the Winter War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great war.
- peisistratos 8y ago
  > This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the Winter War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great war. It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an invasion by all of Europe (sans England, as well as smaller countries like Switzerland, Ireland etc.) The other view is Stalin had loyal cadre around him during the war, and did not have lieutenant colonels with links through the high command making bomb attempts against him.
  - ptaipale 8y ago
    Well, not "all of Europe" was attacking USSR, Germany had fronts also towards Britain as well as North Africa, and USSR did get an immense amount of material support from the USA. It is quite clear that USSR's surprisingly weak performance in Winter War did encourage Hitler to think that he could crush Soviets with a quick summer war.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an invasion by all of Europe Most of Europe was being attacked (or actively suppressed) by Germany, not attacking the USSR with Germany, and even Germany was fighting on other fronts, so it wasn't even “all of Germany”.
wespiser_2018 8y ago
Yea, it was an impossible position for Finland to be in, for exactly the reasons you mention: very small population, and potential to be washed away by they wave of Soviets rolling west in 44-45. All told, I think Finland conducted itself pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Finland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Finland
LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
Also, at the time- it couldnt get much worse then stalin, for most invaded countries. The ukraine had the holdomor and enthusiastically joined the german "liberators" in driving sovjet forces back. Of course, these "national" liberation movements where double betrayed when the german racism became obvious.

by sampo 8y ago

ptaipale 8y ago

This is a bit of a diversion from topic, but the population of Soviet Union, and how it was calculated, is a very interesting issue. Stalin expected a fast population growth, and when the 1937 census showed that he was mistaken, and population of USSR was only 162 million, Stalin had statisticians sent to the GULAG and some were even executed. After that, many tried to avoid being nominated for top jobs, out of fear for meeting the same fate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the Winter War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great war.

peisistratos 8y ago
> This kind of dictatorship and purges of competent people certainly lessened the capabilities of Soviet Union, lead to the unexpected result of the Winter War, and greatly increased the losses of USSR in the coming great war. It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an invasion by all of Europe (sans England, as well as smaller countries like Switzerland, Ireland etc.) The other view is Stalin had loyal cadre around him during the war, and did not have lieutenant colonels with links through the high command making bomb attempts against him.
- ptaipale 8y ago
  Well, not "all of Europe" was attacking USSR, Germany had fronts also towards Britain as well as North Africa, and USSR did get an immense amount of material support from the USA. It is quite clear that USSR's surprisingly weak performance in Winter War did encourage Hitler to think that he could crush Soviets with a quick summer war.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > It's quite a feat to lessen your capabilities, and still be able to repel an invasion by all of Europe Most of Europe was being attacked (or actively suppressed) by Germany, not attacking the USSR with Germany, and even Germany was fighting on other fronts, so it wasn't even “all of Germany”.

wespiser_2018 8y ago

Yea, it was an impossible position for Finland to be in, for exactly the reasons you mention: very small population, and potential to be washed away by they wave of Soviets rolling west in 44-45. All told, I think Finland conducted itself pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Finland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Finland

LifeLiverTransp 8y ago

Also, at the time- it couldnt get much worse then stalin, for most invaded countries. The ukraine had the holdomor and enthusiastically joined the german "liberators" in driving sovjet forces back. Of course, these "national" liberation movements where double betrayed when the german racism became obvious.