4 ms·

Right, but the problem is often the 'lesser of two evils' voting options. There's no choice present for me that I feel represents what I want/need in an elected

by moate 8y ago

Right, but the problem is often the 'lesser of two evils' voting options. There's no choice present for me that I feel represents what I want/need in an elected official. I'm not voting for what I want, I'm just making sure that what I loathe doesn't get into office. This is the problem with representative democracy; it assumes there's a good proxy for my voice, and there increasingly isn't

tremon 8y ago
This is where party-based politics fails representative democracy. There are supposed to be N voices in parliament, so that at least N different voices can be heard. Large parties, party discipline and backroom deals are (imnsho) fundamentally at odds with a well-functioning representative democracy.
- moate 8y ago
  It's a feature, not a bug. As much as people want strong individuals as representatives, time has shown over and over again that a well oiled machine (party) will be much stronger. Those parties then create rules that reinforce the need for coalitions and weaken individuals. Representative democracy is meant to be a way to mitigate the problem of true democracy, which is the idea that it's easier to build a consensus among a small group than a large one and also that "the unwashed masses don't know what's actually good for them". Bottom line is that it's impossible for 1 person to serve as a uncompromising proxy for a large group of people on multiple issues. Even if there weren't parties, there would be a point where my 95% agreement representative gets into the 5% of issues where we disagree. And no matter what, that's going to feel bad man.
  - tremon 8y ago
    I happen to disagree with the dogma that a strong government is a good government, so in my eyes it's a bug.
    - moate 8y ago
      I mean strong vs weak government is really a whole other discussion. Parties exist almost as a separate mechanism than government itself. They're more strongly tied to elections and voting than any specific application or creation of policy. They're about how we select our leaders, not what our leaders can do. Unless your goal is to short circuit the process by created additional bureaucracy/difficulty in the process, it still doesn't seem like a bug. And if that is your goal, it seems more that you have a problem with the law creation/implementation and not how people's voices are being represented.

by moate 8y ago

tremon 8y ago

This is where party-based politics fails representative democracy. There are supposed to be N voices in parliament, so that at least N different voices can be heard. Large parties, party discipline and backroom deals are (imnsho) fundamentally at odds with a well-functioning representative democracy.

moate 8y ago
It's a feature, not a bug. As much as people want strong individuals as representatives, time has shown over and over again that a well oiled machine (party) will be much stronger. Those parties then create rules that reinforce the need for coalitions and weaken individuals. Representative democracy is meant to be a way to mitigate the problem of true democracy, which is the idea that it's easier to build a consensus among a small group than a large one and also that "the unwashed masses don't know what's actually good for them". Bottom line is that it's impossible for 1 person to serve as a uncompromising proxy for a large group of people on multiple issues. Even if there weren't parties, there would be a point where my 95% agreement representative gets into the 5% of issues where we disagree. And no matter what, that's going to feel bad man.
- tremon 8y ago
  I happen to disagree with the dogma that a strong government is a good government, so in my eyes it's a bug.
  - moate 8y ago
    I mean strong vs weak government is really a whole other discussion. Parties exist almost as a separate mechanism than government itself. They're more strongly tied to elections and voting than any specific application or creation of policy. They're about how we select our leaders, not what our leaders can do. Unless your goal is to short circuit the process by created additional bureaucracy/difficulty in the process, it still doesn't seem like a bug. And if that is your goal, it seems more that you have a problem with the law creation/implementation and not how people's voices are being represented.