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>Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For

>Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast difference in the amount of daylight hours makes quite a significant difference. Edit: Removed Iceland, since they froze their EU application.

semi-extrinsic 8y ago
Even in the Nordics, eternal summer time would be preferrable for most people I think. It gives you more sunlight in the afternoon (if I'm not mistaken), when you actually have some free time to utilize that fact. Who cares if it's light or dark in the morning, nobody is outside enjoying the weather at that time anyway, we're just trying to get everyone to school/work.
- renholder 8y ago
  In my county (Östergötland), the sun starts rising at 3am around this time of year; so, the concept of it being light or dark in the morning (or afternoon/night) isn't really a concern (overall). In places like Kiruna, the sun will never set for about two weeks[0], during the summertime. It's the amount of actual daytime during the winter that would principally matter - in the overall scheme of things. [0] - https://www.kirunalapland.se/en/see-do/midnight-sun-2/ https://www.kirunalapland.se/en/see-do/midnight-sun-2/
  - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
    FWIW I live a bit further north, at 63 degrees. In winter, at least december and january, we're in the state of "dark when you go to work, dark when you go home". However for the approx. two months between autumn equinox and end of november, and similar two months from end of january to spring equinox, having one more hour of daylight in the afternoon would be really really nice.
- Lunanne 8y ago
  When I had to bike 6km to school in the Netherlands I was always very happy with the DST switch to wintertime because it meant biking in daylight a bit longer. In summertime sunrise would be at 9:48 am - I really think that is quite late.
- oarsinsync 8y ago
  I leave every morning at 5.30am. I literally see many others (but clearly a minority of peoples) doing the same. It's much nicer doing that in daylight than in darkness, although it was also nice watching the sun rise during my morning swim a couple of months ago.
- posterboy 8y ago
  Some people have tonwork outsides? Sun light also helps to wake up. So it's a trade off either way.
FearNotDaniel 8y ago
Iceland is not in the EU. And also has no land borders with member states. So it doesn't really matter what they choose to do from a Europe-wide perspective.
- renholder 8y ago
  Fixed. I didn't realise they had frozen their application.
madcaptenor 8y ago
Iceland is already on permanent summer time. Reykjavik is at longitude 22 degrees west, so they're "naturally" in GMT-1 (and close to the line with GMT-2) but they use GMT year-round. (The country as a whole is between 13 degrees west and 25 degrees west.)
qalmakka 8y ago
I think countries on a blatantly wrong timezone such as Spain should take this opportunity to fix it. For instance, Spain could stay in UTC+1 all year round and go back in the same timezone as Portugal (which is going to certainly pick its summer time as its whole-year round timezone), thus eliminating the artificial shift everything has there (people eat lunch at 14 and dinner at 22, but these times match roughly with 13 and 21 in solar time).
- mcjiggerlog 8y ago
  What exactly makes it "wrong"? I live in Spain and am perfectly happy with our current timezone and daylight saving. Staying on Winter time just means we get an hour of useless light long before anybody has woken up and take it away from the evening where it is far more appreciated. The spanish public have already been shown to be massively in favor of staying on UTC+2 year-round, though this would mean that the sun wouldn't rise till 0930 in the depths of Winter. I think once the government actually stops and takes a look at the repercussions of all options we will end up carrying on with the status quo.
- wongarsu 8y ago
  I would argue Portugal is the one in the "wrong" timezone here. If you want the sun to be at its high point at noon, Spain is obviously in the wrong time zone. But you see plenty of countries around the world choosing a slightly different timezone to facilitate trade and communication with some other country (or within itself, in the case of larger countries). With most other barriers to trade gone within the eurozone having to convert timezones is a significant inconvinience that (in the mind of many) outweighs having the sun in slightly the wrong place.
  - allannienhuis 8y ago
    Why would you want the sun to be at it's high point at noon? Perhaps that has value in an agricultural society, but in today's world I'd much rather have more daylight in my leisure hours (evening) than my working hours.
    - 8y ago
qwsxyh 8y ago
Here in the UK permenant summer time would mean sunrise would be 9am during the depths of winter. That sounds like a great way to make more accidents (as everyone is now driving to work in the dark at 8am) and also make the seasonal depression worse.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.
  - qwsxyh 8y ago
    Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - cr1895 8y ago
      >kids are walking to school in the dark. As they already do in many other places. Why should this be particularly dangerous for the UK compared to elsewhere?
    - wongarsu 8y ago
      The potential effects on mood and freetime activities of having all sunlight hours fall into school hours sound more serious than walking to school in the dark (most places where you walk are already illuminated quite well)
    - nicoburns 8y ago
      I'd much rather school kids had time to play in the light after school.

semi-extrinsic 8y ago

Even in the Nordics, eternal summer time would be preferrable for most people I think. It gives you more sunlight in the afternoon (if I'm not mistaken), when you actually have some free time to utilize that fact. Who cares if it's light or dark in the morning, nobody is outside enjoying the weather at that time anyway, we're just trying to get everyone to school/work.

renholder 8y ago
In my county (Östergötland), the sun starts rising at 3am around this time of year; so, the concept of it being light or dark in the morning (or afternoon/night) isn't really a concern (overall). In places like Kiruna, the sun will never set for about two weeks[0], during the summertime. It's the amount of actual daytime during the winter that would principally matter - in the overall scheme of things. [0] - https://www.kirunalapland.se/en/see-do/midnight-sun-2/ https://www.kirunalapland.se/en/see-do/midnight-sun-2/
- semi-extrinsic 8y ago
  FWIW I live a bit further north, at 63 degrees. In winter, at least december and january, we're in the state of "dark when you go to work, dark when you go home". However for the approx. two months between autumn equinox and end of november, and similar two months from end of january to spring equinox, having one more hour of daylight in the afternoon would be really really nice.
Lunanne 8y ago
When I had to bike 6km to school in the Netherlands I was always very happy with the DST switch to wintertime because it meant biking in daylight a bit longer. In summertime sunrise would be at 9:48 am - I really think that is quite late.
oarsinsync 8y ago
I leave every morning at 5.30am. I literally see many others (but clearly a minority of peoples) doing the same. It's much nicer doing that in daylight than in darkness, although it was also nice watching the sun rise during my morning swim a couple of months ago.
posterboy 8y ago
Some people have tonwork outsides? Sun light also helps to wake up. So it's a trade off either way.

FearNotDaniel 8y ago

Iceland is not in the EU. And also has no land borders with member states. So it doesn't really matter what they choose to do from a Europe-wide perspective.

renholder 8y ago
Fixed. I didn't realise they had frozen their application.

madcaptenor 8y ago

Iceland is already on permanent summer time. Reykjavik is at longitude 22 degrees west, so they're "naturally" in GMT-1 (and close to the line with GMT-2) but they use GMT year-round. (The country as a whole is between 13 degrees west and 25 degrees west.)

qalmakka 8y ago

I think countries on a blatantly wrong timezone such as Spain should take this opportunity to fix it. For instance, Spain could stay in UTC+1 all year round and go back in the same timezone as Portugal (which is going to certainly pick its summer time as its whole-year round timezone), thus eliminating the artificial shift everything has there (people eat lunch at 14 and dinner at 22, but these times match roughly with 13 and 21 in solar time).

mcjiggerlog 8y ago
What exactly makes it "wrong"? I live in Spain and am perfectly happy with our current timezone and daylight saving. Staying on Winter time just means we get an hour of useless light long before anybody has woken up and take it away from the evening where it is far more appreciated. The spanish public have already been shown to be massively in favor of staying on UTC+2 year-round, though this would mean that the sun wouldn't rise till 0930 in the depths of Winter. I think once the government actually stops and takes a look at the repercussions of all options we will end up carrying on with the status quo.
wongarsu 8y ago
I would argue Portugal is the one in the "wrong" timezone here. If you want the sun to be at its high point at noon, Spain is obviously in the wrong time zone. But you see plenty of countries around the world choosing a slightly different timezone to facilitate trade and communication with some other country (or within itself, in the case of larger countries). With most other barriers to trade gone within the eurozone having to convert timezones is a significant inconvinience that (in the mind of many) outweighs having the sun in slightly the wrong place.
- allannienhuis 8y ago
  Why would you want the sun to be at it's high point at noon? Perhaps that has value in an agricultural society, but in today's world I'd much rather have more daylight in my leisure hours (evening) than my working hours.
  - 8y ago

qwsxyh 8y ago

Here in the UK permenant summer time would mean sunrise would be 9am during the depths of winter. That sounds like a great way to make more accidents (as everyone is now driving to work in the dark at 8am) and also make the seasonal depression worse.

bunderbunder 8y ago
Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.
- qwsxyh 8y ago
  Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cr1895 8y ago
    >kids are walking to school in the dark. As they already do in many other places. Why should this be particularly dangerous for the UK compared to elsewhere?
  - wongarsu 8y ago
    The potential effects on mood and freetime activities of having all sunlight hours fall into school hours sound more serious than walking to school in the dark (most places where you walk are already illuminated quite well)
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    I'd much rather school kids had time to play in the light after school.