4 ms·

>I will now start my move out of the EU While good for you, EU will have one less citizen opposing internet restriction. We need a better way to deal with this

>I will now start my move out of the EU While good for you, EU will have one less citizen opposing internet restriction. We need a better way to deal with this but I cannot think of one. >Politicians felt like your regular corrupt banana republic representatives this time. That's what it converges to. Good ones don't survive.

geff82 8y ago
While I understand what you mean, I don't see myself as having to suffer from stupid legislation. I am no politician and do not plan to be one at this point.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dmichulke 8y ago
He's "voting with his feet" aka "Brain drain". The most effective way to change one's political environment since man could walk, enlightenment and democracy notwithstanding.
- IanSanders 8y ago
  This does not address the root of the problem. No matter where you go, you will be a minority, susceptible to these kinds of "reforms".
  - antocv 8y ago
    We will together be a big minority, like always, the brains will gather and make new nice things.
makomk 8y ago
There is nothing we can do, by design. The European Commission has the exclusive ability to create new laws, and they're almost totally isolated from any kind of democratic control.
- Konryan 8y ago
  That's not exactly true. Parliament can petition the Commission to legislate on something, and citizens can put forward proposal through the ECI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens'_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens'_Initiative
  - sampo 8y ago
    > Parliament can petition the Commission to legislate on something Has this ever happened in practice?
  - vetinari 8y ago
    And the Commission can ignore both, if they feel like it. That's a very long way to anything that resembles democratic control.
- dijit 8y ago
  That's not true at all; they are: A) Elected (though, indirectly, through the elected officials that you elect to be MEPs) and B) A body of law drafters and implementors with no powers to ascend anything to law by themselves. The EC requires the EU parliament to vote on laws that it drafts, the EU parliament can require that laws be redrafted or amended. But the EU parliament is the only place a proposal can become law and those are our elected representatives voting.
  - mcv 8y ago
    The European Commission is sadly not elected by the MEPs, but by PMs of the member states. The European Parliament has to approve the Commission, but can only approve or reject the entire Commission, and not individual members of it.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    Commissioners are not elected, that stretches the meaning of the word past breaking point. By that definition literally any government employee right down to sewage workers are 'elected'. Realistically the Commission are in charge. Because the so-called Parliament can't do anything except (at most) slow down the EU project a little bit, most people who run for election are just EU fanboys/girls who want to be close to the action. In the cases where they send new legislation back to the Commission for more work, it's usually to demand the EU award itself even more power than it was already doing. It doesn't act as any real check on the Commissions power. Even in the rare case of dispute, nothing stops the Commission just making minor changes and telling the Parliament to vote again, which they do. In fact "vote again" is the modus operandi of the entire EU project, whenever anything the Commission and related institutions wants gets rejected. This setup is unique in the world and exists primarily to obfuscate the reality, as far as I can tell. Europhiles use it to claim the EU is "democratic" although the word Parliament means "the body of government that makes law" in English, and the EU Parliament doesn't meet that definition. There are free elections but they can't change anything meaningful, and as a result turnout has been falling steadily for decades, polls show the population don't trust the EU and see it as "out of touch" although fixing out of touch lawmakers is the entire point of elections. The whole thing is theatre intended to distract from the real power brokers: men like Selmayr and Juncker.
tomjen3 8y ago
>We need a better way to deal with this but I cannot think of one. Democracy was a nice dream, but ultimately the only way to get anything done has always, is and will always be violence. Which I am not advocating, because then the state will do violence to me.

geff82 8y ago

While I understand what you mean, I don't see myself as having to suffer from stupid legislation. I am no politician and do not plan to be one at this point.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

dmichulke 8y ago

He's "voting with his feet" aka "Brain drain". The most effective way to change one's political environment since man could walk, enlightenment and democracy notwithstanding.

IanSanders 8y ago
This does not address the root of the problem. No matter where you go, you will be a minority, susceptible to these kinds of "reforms".
- antocv 8y ago
  We will together be a big minority, like always, the brains will gather and make new nice things.

makomk 8y ago

There is nothing we can do, by design. The European Commission has the exclusive ability to create new laws, and they're almost totally isolated from any kind of democratic control.

Konryan 8y ago
That's not exactly true. Parliament can petition the Commission to legislate on something, and citizens can put forward proposal through the ECI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens'_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens'_Initiative
- sampo 8y ago
  > Parliament can petition the Commission to legislate on something Has this ever happened in practice?
- vetinari 8y ago
  And the Commission can ignore both, if they feel like it. That's a very long way to anything that resembles democratic control.
dijit 8y ago
That's not true at all; they are: A) Elected (though, indirectly, through the elected officials that you elect to be MEPs) and B) A body of law drafters and implementors with no powers to ascend anything to law by themselves. The EC requires the EU parliament to vote on laws that it drafts, the EU parliament can require that laws be redrafted or amended. But the EU parliament is the only place a proposal can become law and those are our elected representatives voting.
- mcv 8y ago
  The European Commission is sadly not elected by the MEPs, but by PMs of the member states. The European Parliament has to approve the Commission, but can only approve or reject the entire Commission, and not individual members of it.
- repolfx 8y ago
  Commissioners are not elected, that stretches the meaning of the word past breaking point. By that definition literally any government employee right down to sewage workers are 'elected'. Realistically the Commission are in charge. Because the so-called Parliament can't do anything except (at most) slow down the EU project a little bit, most people who run for election are just EU fanboys/girls who want to be close to the action. In the cases where they send new legislation back to the Commission for more work, it's usually to demand the EU award itself even more power than it was already doing. It doesn't act as any real check on the Commissions power. Even in the rare case of dispute, nothing stops the Commission just making minor changes and telling the Parliament to vote again, which they do. In fact "vote again" is the modus operandi of the entire EU project, whenever anything the Commission and related institutions wants gets rejected. This setup is unique in the world and exists primarily to obfuscate the reality, as far as I can tell. Europhiles use it to claim the EU is "democratic" although the word Parliament means "the body of government that makes law" in English, and the EU Parliament doesn't meet that definition. There are free elections but they can't change anything meaningful, and as a result turnout has been falling steadily for decades, polls show the population don't trust the EU and see it as "out of touch" although fixing out of touch lawmakers is the entire point of elections. The whole thing is theatre intended to distract from the real power brokers: men like Selmayr and Juncker.

tomjen3 8y ago

>We need a better way to deal with this but I cannot think of one. Democracy was a nice dream, but ultimately the only way to get anything done has always, is and will always be violence. Which I am not advocating, because then the state will do violence to me.