7 ms·

I will now start my move out of the EU. I know how heavily restricted Internet feels like from my frequent Iran travels, and I will move out of any country that

by geff82 8y ago

I will now start my move out of the EU. I know how heavily restricted Internet feels like from my frequent Iran travels, and I will move out of any country that moves 2 inches in that direction, whatever the "good reason" might be. Politicians felt like your regular corrupt banana republic representatives this time. And now they know how to get away with this, they will try it with something different again soon.

stuaxo 8y ago
Where are you moving to ?
- geff82 8y ago
  Switzerland is the current plan. It will enable me to keep my business in Germany while not living in CrazyLand myself. I also considered USA and Canada, yet this would mean more problems (at least at the beginning). I am quite familiar with Switzerland and I appreciate their special political system a lot.
  - morsch 8y ago
    That special political system is well on its way to restricting Internet access: https://steigerlegal.ch/2018/06/10/netzsperren-schweiz-zensur/ https://steigerlegal.ch/2018/06/10/netzsperren-schweiz-zensu...
  - mweibel 8y ago
    Please note that there might be similar things happening in Switzerland, too: https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/2019/03/23/demonstration-gegen-urheberrechtsreform-in-zuerich-leistungsschutzrecht/ https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/2019/03/23/demonstratio... (german only, sorry) It's all a bit different than in the EU because people may be able to vote against that at some point.. Whether that happens is another question entirely, though.
    - geff82 8y ago
      I totally did not see this. Thank you for the warning. As I am not totally into politics, I thought that the stupidity of the EU would not be repeated by Switzerland. Honestly, if they do this, I can stay where I am and take some time to investigate the situation in the US or Canada again. Of course, only it Switzerland, there can be referendums, while in the EU we totally do not have them.
      - nairboon 8y ago
        Don't worry, if such a law would pass here in Switzerland, we'll just make a referendum to get rid of it. I'll start it myself if I have to.
      - Dumbdo 8y ago
        If a single law makes you switch countries you should overthink that decision. It's a bad law for sure, I even joined a demonstration against it, but it's like totally on a different scale than censorship in the Iran. Please inform yourself before making such statements.
        geff82 8y ago
        I did not mean that the EU copies the brutally censored web of Iran, but that I heavily oppose any legislation that takes away any part of "free speech". Indeed having any meaningful restriction of free speech or the possibility to express it (which this legislation is about) would make me switch countries. I think that close to limitless free speech is a total base of everything. Even if other laws are really bad, like let's say death penalty, I have to have the possibility to freely speak about it to make it go away. But I can not distribute my opinion about some bad law and maybe make it go away as long as the speech itself is restricted.
      - toyg 8y ago
        > I thought that the stupidity of the EU would not be repeated by Switzerland Switzerland is literally surrounded by the EU, which means it has to accept most of its regulations anyway, one way or another. See the freedom-of-movement capitulation. It doesn't really matter anyway, these things sooner or later will land everywhere. The interests aligned behind are too big not to.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    If you want to move out of the sphere of influence of the copyright cartels you're going to have to achieve escape velocity at some point. Those places where copyright infringement is not going to result in repercussions are generally not worth living in.
    - geff82 8y ago
      While it might not seem so, I totally favor the enforcement of copyright laws (I still think they are over the top in their current form, but anyway, I am not against them). I just think that the individual user is responsible, not a platform. And this is what the big problem with all this is. We are living in a platform world as this eases things, yet they are given a task they can not possibly complete without essentially giving up on what they do). There will never be something like a European Youtube again, it is a financially impossible task now.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        There never was something like a European Youtube before, the closest we ever got was 'dailymotion' and that suffered greatly from France's idiotic policy of handing out money with strings attached to be able to veto exits to US companies. Youtube became as big as it did whilst massively supporting copyright infringement, if not for Google they would have surely been killed. The bulk of the content on Youtube does not infringe copyright.
rogerthis 8y ago
Lots of laws propagate to other places, as time passes. Brazil now has its own GDPR version, which is heavily inspired by EU's GDPR. Some laws are good to be the same, others are not (this is one of the reasons people has been supporting the most recent nationalist movements).
IanSanders 8y ago
>I will now start my move out of the EU While good for you, EU will have one less citizen opposing internet restriction. We need a better way to deal with this but I cannot think of one. >Politicians felt like your regular corrupt banana republic representatives this time. That's what it converges to. Good ones don't survive.
- geff82 8y ago
  While I understand what you mean, I don't see myself as having to suffer from stupid legislation. I am no politician and do not plan to be one at this point.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- dmichulke 8y ago
  He's "voting with his feet" aka "Brain drain". The most effective way to change one's political environment since man could walk, enlightenment and democracy notwithstanding.
  - IanSanders 8y ago
    This does not address the root of the problem. No matter where you go, you will be a minority, susceptible to these kinds of "reforms".
    - antocv 8y ago
      We will together be a big minority, like always, the brains will gather and make new nice things.
- makomk 8y ago
  There is nothing we can do, by design. The European Commission has the exclusive ability to create new laws, and they're almost totally isolated from any kind of democratic control.

by geff82 8y ago

stuaxo 8y ago

Where are you moving to ?

geff82 8y ago
Switzerland is the current plan. It will enable me to keep my business in Germany while not living in CrazyLand myself. I also considered USA and Canada, yet this would mean more problems (at least at the beginning). I am quite familiar with Switzerland and I appreciate their special political system a lot.
- morsch 8y ago
  That special political system is well on its way to restricting Internet access: https://steigerlegal.ch/2018/06/10/netzsperren-schweiz-zensur/ https://steigerlegal.ch/2018/06/10/netzsperren-schweiz-zensu...
- mweibel 8y ago
  Please note that there might be similar things happening in Switzerland, too: https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/2019/03/23/demonstration-gegen-urheberrechtsreform-in-zuerich-leistungsschutzrecht/ https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/2019/03/23/demonstratio... (german only, sorry) It's all a bit different than in the EU because people may be able to vote against that at some point.. Whether that happens is another question entirely, though.
  - geff82 8y ago
    I totally did not see this. Thank you for the warning. As I am not totally into politics, I thought that the stupidity of the EU would not be repeated by Switzerland. Honestly, if they do this, I can stay where I am and take some time to investigate the situation in the US or Canada again. Of course, only it Switzerland, there can be referendums, while in the EU we totally do not have them.
    - nairboon 8y ago
      Don't worry, if such a law would pass here in Switzerland, we'll just make a referendum to get rid of it. I'll start it myself if I have to.
    - Dumbdo 8y ago
      If a single law makes you switch countries you should overthink that decision. It's a bad law for sure, I even joined a demonstration against it, but it's like totally on a different scale than censorship in the Iran. Please inform yourself before making such statements.
      - geff82 8y ago
        I did not mean that the EU copies the brutally censored web of Iran, but that I heavily oppose any legislation that takes away any part of "free speech". Indeed having any meaningful restriction of free speech or the possibility to express it (which this legislation is about) would make me switch countries. I think that close to limitless free speech is a total base of everything. Even if other laws are really bad, like let's say death penalty, I have to have the possibility to freely speak about it to make it go away. But I can not distribute my opinion about some bad law and maybe make it go away as long as the speech itself is restricted.
    - toyg 8y ago
      > I thought that the stupidity of the EU would not be repeated by Switzerland Switzerland is literally surrounded by the EU, which means it has to accept most of its regulations anyway, one way or another. See the freedom-of-movement capitulation. It doesn't really matter anyway, these things sooner or later will land everywhere. The interests aligned behind are too big not to.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  If you want to move out of the sphere of influence of the copyright cartels you're going to have to achieve escape velocity at some point. Those places where copyright infringement is not going to result in repercussions are generally not worth living in.
  - geff82 8y ago
    While it might not seem so, I totally favor the enforcement of copyright laws (I still think they are over the top in their current form, but anyway, I am not against them). I just think that the individual user is responsible, not a platform. And this is what the big problem with all this is. We are living in a platform world as this eases things, yet they are given a task they can not possibly complete without essentially giving up on what they do). There will never be something like a European Youtube again, it is a financially impossible task now.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      There never was something like a European Youtube before, the closest we ever got was 'dailymotion' and that suffered greatly from France's idiotic policy of handing out money with strings attached to be able to veto exits to US companies. Youtube became as big as it did whilst massively supporting copyright infringement, if not for Google they would have surely been killed. The bulk of the content on Youtube does not infringe copyright.

rogerthis 8y ago

Lots of laws propagate to other places, as time passes. Brazil now has its own GDPR version, which is heavily inspired by EU's GDPR. Some laws are good to be the same, others are not (this is one of the reasons people has been supporting the most recent nationalist movements).

IanSanders 8y ago

>I will now start my move out of the EU While good for you, EU will have one less citizen opposing internet restriction. We need a better way to deal with this but I cannot think of one. >Politicians felt like your regular corrupt banana republic representatives this time. That's what it converges to. Good ones don't survive.

geff82 8y ago
While I understand what you mean, I don't see myself as having to suffer from stupid legislation. I am no politician and do not plan to be one at this point.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dmichulke 8y ago
He's "voting with his feet" aka "Brain drain". The most effective way to change one's political environment since man could walk, enlightenment and democracy notwithstanding.
- IanSanders 8y ago
  This does not address the root of the problem. No matter where you go, you will be a minority, susceptible to these kinds of "reforms".
  - antocv 8y ago
    We will together be a big minority, like always, the brains will gather and make new nice things.
makomk 8y ago
There is nothing we can do, by design. The European Commission has the exclusive ability to create new laws, and they're almost totally isolated from any kind of democratic control.