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Morgan Freeman Converts His 124-Acre Ranch into a Giant Bee Sanctuary
- sdrothrock 8y agoI've seen people calling him out the use of the word "sanctuary" and suggesting that this is really just sanctuary for taxes, not bees. As a pre-emptive counterargument, there's nothing saying that all 124 acres of his ranch can or should host bees. There are tons of arguments for not wanting the hives near the house, other outbuildings, or anywhere animals are kept, for example. It may be that only 26 acres or so (assuming a 1:1 hive:acreage ratio) have flowering plants etc. that are hospitable to bees, even.
- weego 8y agoI've yet to see an argument for why using tax incentives to coerce good outcomes from people is even a bad thing
- Radim 8y agoThe typical argument is that "tax incentives", whether positive or negative, ultimately come from other people's hard work and money. And those people may not agree with you (the benevolent distributor of incentives) on what "good outcomes" are. TL;DR: People have their own, often highly idiosyncratic ideas about what's worthwhile and how they want to spend their money.
- andrepd 8y ago>And those people may not agree with you (the benevolent distributor of incentives) I was under the impression that in a democracy there was no single BDFL.
- Radim 8y agoAnd how does that change the explanation, "People have their own, often highly idiosyncratic ideas about what's worthwhile and how they want to spend their money.", one way or another?
- lotsofpulp 8y agoBecause it can easily be corrupted since you can’t define “good outcome”, and it’s impossible to prosecute quid pro quo for a wink and nod deal since there isn’t sufficient evidence. In a democracy, the government exists to provide a set of services agreed upon by the people for the benefit of all the people, many times via their elected representatives. Roads, educational facilities, welfare, military, all of those expenses don’t disappear because someone decided to donate something. If you want tax dollars to support a cause, then vote for it. And there’s no reason tax deductions should be given to support your own little tribe.
- icebraining 8y ago> Roads, educational facilities, welfare, military, all of those expenses don’t disappear because someone decided to donate something. They also wouldn't disappear if Morgan Freeman had decided to volunteer his labor for a foundation for free - thereby not earning any taxable income - yet the State would have to work it out. In this case, the labor donation was just done indirectly.
- lotsofpulp 8y agoThe point is that you can't tell if it was a donation, or if it was something else. Just like a donation to a certain non profit organization isn't just a donation, but buying votes, or in exchange for some other favor. The incentive to donate should be wanting to donate, there doesn't need to be anything on top of that from the government.
- icebraining 8y agoYou can't tell if unpaid volunteer work is a donation either, yet it's not taxed.
- peteradio 8y agoWasn't this voted on? There must be some existing program he is enrolling into. That didn't come from nothing, it would have been developed and voted on by elected representatives.
- ethagknight 8y agoMaybe, in this scenario, if there were a tax on the insecticides that are killing off the bees in the first place, I would be more excited. Instead we have insecticides being made for profit killing bees, and I’m paying for the privilege as a spectator.
- raubtier 8y agoWell, Freeman seems to be a nice guy, maybe he doesn't want to contribute more than necessary to bombing third-world countries.
- RickJWagner 8y agoI remember a similar item about Bruce Springsteen calling his mansion a farm (to get lower tax rates.) The stories about Springsteen seemed credible. I hope Morgan Freeman is on the level, though.
- mikeyouse 8y agoMichael Dell has a 'nature preserve' for deer that just so happens to be the few hundred acres surrounding his house. This of course qualifies for the agriculture exemption on Texas property taxes, so a piece of property that he spent $70M purchasing is paying taxes as if it's worth $290,000. Quite the system we have when the public subsidizes people like Michael Dell for $1m/year on this property alone: https://www.thenation.com/article/tax-day-farms-owned-rich-provide-massive-tax-shelter/ https://www.thenation.com/article/tax-day-farms-owned-rich-p...
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- mastazi 8y agoIs this website a source we can trust? I've looked at a couple other articles and it looked a bit sketchy.
- lemoncurd 8y agoYou can just google the headline and you will find a Forbes article about it.
- haasted 8y agoIt's an article on "Forbes sites", though. It's the equivalent of sort-of-trusted bloggers. Seems Forbes really don't care about their online brand anymore.
- sohkamyung 8y agoPersonally, I would see who the writer on Forbes is, rather than just dismiss the entire Forbes website. For example, I read articles published on Forbes by "Starts With a Bang" (an astrophysicists) and "GrrlScientist" (a biologist) because I have read their articles previously published from other sites before they moved to Forbes and enjoy what they write.
- mikekchar 8y agoThis particular author seems to just be starting out on their career. I could only find 2 other articles authored by them on the internet. The article itself is pretty light and is mostly quoting twitter and pre-existing interviews on on a talk show. Can you trust it? Hmmm... Well, you could check up the Twitter postings to see if they are real :-). Not sure if there is much to trust...
- esemor 8y agoNear my house there is what you could call a insect ”sanctuary”. When it was established a few tears ago we kind of shrug our shoulders and did not think much of it. But the amount of new flowers and insects popping up, not only inside but also around the area is astonishing. I almost see it as a positive feedback loop with more insects, better pollination, more diverse flowers, more insects... Just as pesticides could create a negative feedback loop.
- forkandwait 8y agoCould you describe the sanctuary nearby? We live on a typical city lot, and I am going to try to become a mini-sanctuary over the next few years and would love working examples.
- mikekchar 8y agoBe careful of your city bylaws. I grew a wildflower garden in my backyard in Canada and got a complaint once. Given that the neighbour to one side asked be to do it makes me think it might have been the neighbour on the other side :-) I actually didn't mind cutting it down because I was moving that year anyway, but it pays to talk with your neighbours and find out what the city requires. It is especially important to understand what is and is not a noxious weed and to be on top of keeping them out of your sanctuary.
- jamisteven 8y agoSounds like you live in a HOA
- folkrav 8y agoHOAs are exceedingly rare in Canada, outside condo associations.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoThe GP's neighbor sounds like they have their panties in a bunch but going out of your way not to offend/annoy those kind of people is just the reality in those kind of places. If you want to live somewhere "nice" but not the middle of nowhere you need to conform. Unfortunately things like having a large garden, having parties, having a project boat, or collecting late 80s vintage cars do not fit within the scope of "conforming" for the purposes of the upper middle class suburban neighborhoods that most HNers will settle down in. The GP didn't conform so his neighbor complained and someone sent him a letter on official letterhead. It doesn't really matter who's letterhead it's on. Only well off suburban/urban communities the resources to justify mediating disputes to the tune of "my neighbor's hobbies look/sound/smell offensive". If you want freedom to do what you want on your own property you need your neighbors to either have bigger problems or be far enough away to not care. Those places don't generally have good schools or aren't within commuting distance of lots of good jobs. There's tradeoffs to every approach.
- 6nf 8y agoThis website ... Normally I wouldn't complain but really isn't there a better source?
- azeotropic 8y agoThat's nice, but the honeybee population is not declining. https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/88117/err-246.pdf?v=43186 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/88117/err-246.... http://time.com/4885569/honeybee-population-increase/ http://time.com/4885569/honeybee-population-increase/ https://www.agprofessional.com/article/bee-population-rising-around-world https://www.agprofessional.com/article/bee-population-rising...
- andyjohnson0 8y agoIs the wild bee population also increasing, or is the increase due to the beekeeping "industry" (as it is termed in your [1])?
- azeotropic 8y agoNobody knows. But most crop pollination is performed by wild bee species that are common, not threatened or endangered. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms8414 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms8414 For an acerbic look at the "... but wild bees" argument, see: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_8913974 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_8913974
- pixel_ 8y agoThat's nice, but none of those articles address wild populations.
- ada1981 8y agoNice people on all sides.
- azeotropic 8y agoThe original article is about Morgan Freeman keeping honeybees, in case you didn't read it.
- lostlogin 8y agoHive numbers are on a steep increase in New Zealand. In 10 years we have more than doubled the number. Honey prices are falling for beekeepers though, so many are expecting a bit of an industry crash. Our wild bees are not doing so well. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/01/31/79714/the-dark-side-of-nzs-honey-bee https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/01/31/79714/the-dark-side-of... https://www.airborne.co.nz/statistics/new-zealand.shtml https://www.airborne.co.nz/statistics/new-zealand.shtml
- pvdebbe 8y agoGet beesy living or get busy dying.
- labster 8y ago124 acres doesn't seem all that giant, not even a half mile squared. Maybe I'm reading "Giant Bee Sanctuary" wrong. Is it a sanctuary for Giant Bees[0]? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19221337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19221337
- dagw 8y agoWithout knowing the median size of current bee sanctuaries it's impossible to say how 124 acres ranks. Perhaps the typical bee sanctuary is less than an acre.
- dnate 8y agoFor those who were wondering: 124 acres =~ 0.5 square km or 50 hectar so pretty big
- ghaff 8y agoPretty big is relative. Sure, that's pretty big relative to suburban plots that are more likely to be in the 1/2 to 2 acre range. But it's not huge once you get even moderately rural; my two neighbors and I are on about 75 acres collectively. And it's actually pretty small relative to, say, many ranches out West.
- lostlogin 8y agoBees can forage up to about 5km but generally stay within about 3km, in case that interests anyone. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forage_(honey_bee) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forage_(honey_bee)
- peteradio 8y agoIs this for honeybees?? I hope its for native bees because why would you create a sanctuary for what is basically an agricultural animal like cow or sheep.
- azeotropic 8y agoIt is for his honeybees
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoWhy not both? Native bees can live alongside honeybees quite happily.
- lostlogin 8y agoYou need to look after the honey bee. You’ll go hungry without it.
- platz 8y agoIt's up to the wealthy to save us helpless souls now
- FilterSweep 8y agoThat’s the end result of crony capitalism, baby.
- ic4l 8y agoWell now its official. https://imgur.com/a/3E4gAG5 https://imgur.com/a/3E4gAG5
- sagebird 8y agoThis article is a bit superficial. CCD is more than just pesticides killing bees. The invasive varroa mite is likely a big factor. It’s a good thing that he is taking care of bees. The solution might be more complex than sanctuaries though— IE how can we reduce the mite population? Potential CCD Causes According to EPA: ... researchers who are leading the effort to find out why are now focused on these factors: Increased losses due to the invasive varroa mite (a pest of honey bees). New or emerging diseases such as Israeli Acute Paralysis virus and the gut parasite Nosema. Pesticide poisoning through exposure to pesticides applied to crops or for in-hive insect or mite control. Stress bees experience due to management practices such as transportation to multiple locations across the country for providing pollination services. Changes to the habitat where bees forage. Inadequate forage/poor nutrition. Potential immune-suppressing stress on bees caused by one or a combination of factors identified above.
- rob74 8y agoWell, one of the theories is that pesticides weaken bees and make them more vulnerable to varroa mites and other parasites, diseases etc. (the "potential immune-suppressing stress" in your quote).
- lostlogin 8y agoOnce you get on top of varroa it is amazing how fast a hive grows. It seems to take a while for other problems to subside (sac brood, deformed wing virus etc) and a requeening seems to be required sometimes. I’ve been using a variation on the Randy Oliver method with oxalic acid and it’s bring the varroa down fast when used. Weekly counts of varroa on a cup of bees has been (averaged) 15, 12, 8, 4, then 1 or 2 last weekend. The behaviour of the hives has changed too, and they are more settled (or as settled as can be, mid robbing season).
- adolph 8y agoI like bees, but aren't they effectively an invasive species too? When temperatures increased, fauna and habitat changed drastically, causing the extinction of Apis in the New World until they were reintroduced by European settlers in 1622 (Engel et al. 2009). https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/97006/UMURJ-Issue09_2012-EWeber.pdf?sequence=1 https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/9700...
- pault 8y agoIs it safe to live in a sanctuary for giant bees?
- RankingMember 8y agoIn my experience bees don't really mess with you unless you try to (or accidentally) mess with their nest.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoI think GP was making a joke based on the ambiguous wording of the headline. ;) FWIW though, we have a hive in our back garden and the bees don't bother us or the neighbours at all.
- lostlogin 8y agoDosing them with honey works in my experience. I’m up early with lights on and it’s the end of the season (meaning lots of bees with little to productive work to do). They are pinging off the window next to me.
- ada1981 8y ago🇺🇸 I met Morgan Freeman at a screening of Bucket List in DC. I asked him if we could play Rock Paper Scissors. He said he didn’t know how. So I taught him. He then told me what he was going to throw. I told him he shouldn’t do that. Then I beat him. So I both taught and beat Morgan Freeman at Rock Paper Sissors.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoFun story. Btw, is that an emoji? Thought they were stripped from input.
- ada1981 8y agoI thought so too, but for some reason a few aren’t. I posted about it yesterday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19482991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19482991
- mixmastamyk 8y agoOk, looks like some unicode blocks such as flags are not stripped.
- droobles 8y agoFirst time seeing an emoji here. Nice.
- wsc981 8y agoJames Hetfield (singer of Metallica) has also become a part-time beekeeper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrFdI8U9Ri4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrFdI8U9Ri4
- partiallypro 8y agoOne glaring problem I see with this is that anyone who has ever had hives (which my family has) knows how quickly Varroa mites can spread (the #1 killer of bees.) If all the bees are in a single location, that could wipe out every hive there. Would make more sense to me if you made sanctuaries that were spread on ~1 acre plots around a wide area (thinking several cities/town in a clustered area.) Anyone with more expertise is free to correct me, but I feel like clustering bees on single plots, even 124 acres (which seems big, but is not really that big,) really has some risk if your end goal is to preserve the species.
- beardicus 8y agoSpreading bees out would not make a difference here. All hives have some level of varroa nowadays. The level depends on management techniques and not so much proximity to other hives with mites. Spreading hives out into 1 acre plots wouldn't do much when bees are foraging miles away from the hive, and would make it more difficult to visit each hive for maintenance.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- lostlogin 8y agoThere are worse diseases too - like American foul brood. The cure (by law) here in New Zealand is to pour petrol in the hive then burn it, even if it is in just one cell. It goes through an apiary fast, as bees rob out dead hives. The dream scenario is to have apiarys completly isolated from one another, but we are so overstocked here that this isn’t possible.
- tptacek 8y agoYour periodic reminders that: 1. Honey bees in North America are a non-native invasive species. 2. Virtually all honey bees in the United States are livestock. 3. Colony collapse disorder is an economic issue for commercial beekeepers, and apparently not much of a problem. 4. The true threat to honey bees in the United States isn't environment, but rather the introduction of the Varroa destructor mite in 1987 (which eradicated feral honey bees). A "honey bee sanctuary" in the continental US is a weird idea.
- wodenokoto 8y agoAbout number 3, according to wikipedia [1] > the total U.S. crop value that was wholly dependent on honey bee pollination was estimated to exceed $15 billion. and > honeybees perform some level of pollination of nearly 75% of all plant species directly used for human food worldwide. Which sounds like a bit more than just beekeeping. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder#Economic_and_ecological_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder#Econo...
- tptacek 8y agoHoney bees in the US are economically important despite not being a natural part of our ecosystem. But they're no more threatened in that role than CAFO pigs are. At its peak, "colony collapse" was (apparently; there are experts on HN who can break this out with precision) associated with low double digit overwintering losses, no meaningful increase in the price of new queens, and normal fluctuations in the price of pollination services. It's also worth remembering that if your concern over bees is environmental and not economic, honey bees compete with native bees and also transmit pathogens to them. They're not entirely benign.
- Not_a_pizza 8y agoIs there some real figure which would give truth to the amount other insects would pollinate, if not honey bees? It seems like we have way too many insects in the world for the honey bee to be the only reliable pollinator. Besides, aren't solitary bees supposed to be better pollinators? As much as I like honey, I can't help but thinking there is a huge gap in logic with all of these people waving and screaming we aren't going to have food because of dwindling honey bee populations.
- mceoin 8y agoA number of people have mentioned varroa mites and the problems they cause for domestic and wild bee populations. For those interested mycologist Paul Stamets has been trialing the addition of polypore extract to bee food (water / sugar water) to boost their immune system. Results on smaller sample set (~100 hives) was near total eradication of the mites (I think broken wing disorder was diminished too). Next trial is on sample size of 10k+ hives. Since domestic and wild bees comingle this should reduce transmission from domestic to wild bee populations, and hopefully give wild bees a chance to recover. For those interested you’ll be able to find Stamets talking about this on YouTube in his talk “Into The Mycoverse”, and elsewhere, I’m sure.
- kurthr 8y agoThe first article I found discussed fungus extracts for virus treatment... I didn't see anything about mite eradication, but that would be a really big deal! https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-32194-8#ref-CR20 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-32194-8#ref-CR20
- jandrese 8y agoThis may be a case where the mites are more of a symptom than a cause. Once the hive is healthy they may be able to deal with the mites on their own.
- lostlogin 8y agoGenetics will play a massive part in this. In New Zealand mites are relatively new and bees die fast without treatment, however strong they are. Everyone who wants live hives treats 2x a year minimum and some are doing it up to 7x. If anyone is interested in new approaches, check out the (very long) thread on a local site that covers a novel way of applying oxalic acid. It is excellent and the guy driving has done masses of development in his rural shed. Broadly, it’s multiple layers of paper jointing tape (usually for use on plaster board joints) that are sewn together and soaked in a glycerine and oxalic acid mix. They are very cheap and seem very effective. https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/13073-integrated-pest-management-2019/ https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/13073-integrated-pest-ma... https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/10061-oxalic-and-glycerine/page/113/ https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/10061-oxalic-and-glyceri...
- MagicPropmaker 8y agoGiant Bees!
- KorematsuFred 8y agoI believe that is to get the tax break by classifying the land as agricultural ? Scarlet Johnson, Bon Jovi and many have been doing this for years. Of course I wouldn't care about motives, if it ends up protecting bees why not.